Token2049 Show: Hottest Market Narratives To Invest In

Good morning everyone. Hello, hello, hello. We're allowing some people to filter in. We've got quite a few people joining us from the show today from token 2049 or actually who are about on their way to token 249. Great to have everyone here with us today. It's been quite a week as always and thank you so much for joining us. If you are a speaker, go ahead and request to speak right away so we can get you up here. I see climbers out there. Go ahead and request to speak claims. We can get you up here. We're going to be talking a little bit about market narratives. We're on the first couple of days of Q4. It is the first day of fall here in the USA. So that that was a big deal. My kid anyway. We talked about it a lot, but welcome. You know, we're getting into spooky season with Halloween for those who are into that. Just seems to get more popular every year. But great to have you all on. Go ahead and tweet out the space so we can get more people in here. And we're going to start in just about a minute or two. I guess I will go ahead and get into the newsread to give the room a chance to fill up a little bit more. Let's go ahead and talk a little bit about what we've been up to over the past little while. So token 2049 Singapore. It's on this October 7th and 8th Marina Bay sands. It's enormous. It's got 25,000 to 10. He is coming. We're going to be talking about the $1,000,000,000 companies, 300 speakers, including one of the Trump Sons. Right. I forget whether it's Eric or John Jr. But okay. That should be amazing. 500 exhibitors with more than 60% of attendees at a sea level. A sweet sea sweet level. Okay. Basically the speaker list is a cross section where crypto is heading. In other words, a lot more cross over tradify kind of stuff. Polymarket, Shane Copeland hyperliquid Jeff Yang, Nasdaq CEO, Adina Friedman, Arthur Hayes, the Winkle Voss twins. We know them by Nancy EO Richard Tang, Franklin Templeton CEO Jenny Johnson consensus founder. The purpose of Lubin and Solana and Solana Foundation president Lily Lou are all scheduled. The agenda says a lot about the state of the industry, institutional defi stablecoin payments crypto plus AI, quantum security, a gentick finance and moving traditional money on chain to get dedicated sessions. token 2049 is looking considerably less like a casino convention with all that all that wild hype. Remember back in the day, remember what mean coins were popular a couple years ago. And more like the crossover conference that's becoming we're looking to becoming the financial infrastructure for tradify. That fits the bigger narrative in crypto coin gecko recently said that 2026 has increased rotating projects with real revenue institutional integration and infrastructure stable coins and RWA's are near the top of that move while AI is evolving toward agentic payments verifiable AI and decentralized compute rather than just putting a token on AI story. RWA's in particular gathering momentum RWA tokens produced a median return of 10.7% in July the strongest major crypto narrative track by crypto rank while total RWA capitalization on chain reached 32.2 billion. It doesn't seem like that much does it folks, I mean it just goes to show how small our spaces compared to trad by there's a caveat the rally was concentrating relatively few tokens. A lot of tokenized assets still show very little actual activity that's coming from Yahoo stable coins are also graduating from crypto plumbing and to payment infrastructure the market has moved beyond simply asking how many stable coins exist toward who can actually use them for settlement remittances and payments we're looking for those. In real world use cases meanwhile the altcoin market is trying once again to answer the immortal question is alt season actually coming you know that's the question we ask every week with that with our the name of our show Ethereum salon XRP chain lick the chain link Sui avalanche all enter October with identifiable catalyst but falling Bitcoin dominance broader market participation and sustained institutional flows would provide stronger evidence of a genuine rotation. The calendar saying October well you know that that'll be we certainly hope for an alt season to come back right it's a lot more fun when it's all happening the big crypto story heading into token 2049 maybe that there isn't one dominant dominating narrative anymore stable coins RWA institutional D5 prediction markets of course perp taxes AI infrastructure which has fizzled a little hasn't it folks but of course AI is still going some you know the market is going to be a lot more fun. Even though I think that also is in for a bit of a pop in the on the regular stock market but the common denominator is increasingly you know focusing on things that are boring stable and hopefully producing revenue actual users actual revenue actual financial infrastructure so let's go ahead and get into it hopefully people have had an opportunity to arrive while I while I go on about that. Let's go ahead and start with who we got with us let's go ahead and start with 88 blocks 88 blocks how you're today let's do my check. Yes I'm fine thank you how are you Justin actually I'm representing a box but my name is Alex. Oh okay well well good to meet you and I said 88 blocks right so I multiply to you by 11 are you going to token 2049. Yes yes we're going we also will be cohosting one of the side events there so we're looking forward actually so cool cool okay you know what narrative are you going into the show token 2049 is enormous what are you looking for the singer hearing of the show this year. Actually yes I'm like we're more more interested in seeing what people are actually building rather than just listening to the big narrative yes so it's a great place to see where capital and structure and real users are moving also especially interested in RWA and other institutional adoption so it's a great place to be in of course it's impossible to. Catch up with all the events and what's happening there but at least that's a great opportunity to meet people and find some networking and cooperation opportunities. Well definitely the networking is very much worth it let me go over to a spirit from a rival browser am I saying that raises spirit. I love just seen. So that's my right name yeah yeah yeah. So are you going to token 2049. It's another thing to see that I never heard about this event before and then from yesterday I see that it's actually one of the biggest events occurring every year on crypto. Yeah yeah I think this is a very great opportunity for networking and for new founders to get to know and even get funding so it's a very great thing. Right right well great to have you on you know folks we're going to we're having some people join who are going to be a few minutes late as well we've got at least 10 people signed up for the panel so we'll see who shows up but we're going to go get started with we have my good friend Clem Chambers with me Clem Chambers how are you today sir with this club. Okay well maybe that's a mute button kind of situation going on there on there or I caught him at a bad time if anyone you know whoever's in the space go ahead and tweet the space out. Let everybody else know about it let's get some more people in the room will wait for more of the guests to arrive but also go ahead and follow these guests who got somebody brilliant speakers coming on today. Follow when alt season follow me if you'd like to why not it's good for the soul a clam you with us yeah with it. Oh great it's the hard to keep all that my end that needs adjusting. I understand I you know the finding that mute button I do it at least once the show so you know is this kind of where you expected us to be in Q4 2026 or is this or is this. Is it unpredictable given how much macro economic kind of BS there has been going on all year not half because of I mean not. Do in part of course to the many antics of the current administration here in the US seems kind of hard to account for that sort of thing so so are you surprised there's this all according to plan from your perspective. Well what I see is that we're now firmly into B2B land away from business to business land rather. Started as all C2C right customer customer people person to person right to be and then it went B2C with you know the exchanges and all that. The LARK the FTX is as well the finances and now it's B2B the the the seas of largely gone well so I mean they may have gone over to Kalshi in places like that they may have gone back to Robin Hood or whatever on they may have just lost all their money. Right now when you read out all you know tokens whatever is in Singapore and the lanes you read out that they're all they're all corporate they're all you know they're all multinational corporates you know they are. What was meant to be the enemy right right absolutely well that's the thing the vibe has has shifted quite a bit has an acclaim like I really you know even when this market turns around. I don't know that people are really going to feel they get the crypto space as they've known it for the past 10 years I don't know if it's ever really coming back it seems like at this point our space is just plumbing underneath tradfi I mean and maybe that's inevitable considering. Yeah money there is in that space you know what do you think about that yeah well I think that's right I think I think we've got to a state where you know it's big what what did Microsoft used to say about software embrace extend destroy. Eight blocks I see you got knocked off go ahead and request to speak so we can get you back on here yeah you know and of course change can be painful it we're waiting for for the old alt season to come back I mean obviously like it's actually in the name of the show which is kind of funny but I don't know that it will necessarily come back in the in the same form anyone else who's who's joining who's supposed to be a speaker you got a less no folks that we can see you. I guess eight blocks is having is having a connectivity issue let's go over to white label white label how you doing welcome back to the show. Hey guys how is it going match here from white white label how are you doing good are you going to token 2049. Now it's the first year in the last three years I'm not going I just got a second kid so I couldn't do this to my wife. Oh congratulations on that. Thank you very much enjoy enjoy the visit time anytime right even so like I I love going to token right it's always amazing to be being Singapore when the last one got canceled in Dubai as well right so yeah I wish I could but I'm going to pass and hope that the next one in Dubai is going to happen I think Napoli or. Well having another kid made by a very slim margin actually be a bigger deal than token 2049 very enough to better. I'm your perspective um but you know how are you feeling about the narratives here in uh you know I see that you're on like the casino side of things yes but um you know one of the hot narratives that we have this year we everybody seems to be looking for something reliable we've got a stable coins RWA is you know a. So I'm trying to invest in payment infrastructure and then we've got a prediction market so obviously there's always that appetite you know two questions do you think that prediction markets have kind of come in and stolen the thunder that meme coins might have had like essentially preventing another rising of meme coins as people look for some price action to play with and you know would you really say is that a Web 3 narrative is that is that a good idea. Is that is that a crypto narrative or isn't it something that it seems to it seems to not quite fit with the other kind of crypto projects what do you think man yeah I I totally agree with that I think like people have been trying to find place to to gamble right and we saw that drink cove they've even even before and meme coin was a little bit directly people used to gamble now like we have prediction market and people basically for their money there. I agree with what clan mentioned at the very beginning of the call right we have much more institution and I feel like like the whole crypto and Web 3 market has been going completely in two different direction you have people gambling more because we have more and more and more of like crypto casinos right like we help any influencer anyone who is no just to start his online crypto casinos with like a compliant one with a life so this is what we do and we see more and more demand here at the same time we see more and more demand here more and more demand in prediction market and all what seems in the middle like to buy and all of the same like this is having more difficulties and at the same time like where there's a big hype as well as on the institutional adoption right like stable coins people putting tokenized stocks tokenized real estate we were talking about this five six years ago I remember in the industry and now it's finally coming to life it just it's not happening the way we were expecting just like much more slow and much more institutional at the moment. Well I mean obviously adding all of those all those normies all all of the slate gray pinstripe suits instead of a ironic t-shirts to the to the mix it's going to change the nature of how the industry moves let's go over to a stereo you guys are in the RWA space of course you know going into q4 RWA is where you expect them to be because I keep seeing you know I have been seeing ever since they were we're called. Security tokens RWA is you know making huge assessments of your potential market 62 billion actually seems a little bit a little bit small on chain right now is it progressing as you expected a stereo. Hello Justin thank you for being here well we can say that when you talk about infrastructure it's also about stable coins yes and we're talking about this so we should understand that. Stereo coins are the digital cash so they can use as a calendar and also for payments and for credits and for most of the people who knew in the space is a new products so they can use them and it's a real. We are exponentially growing so our targets so probably all the next few months is 50 billion dollars and we will expect that if the wall narratives like a perp market and Bitcoin dominance will also rising so about RWA I think that. We can stop separating the stable coins and just talk about on chain finance and tokenized stocks the interesting fight will be over who owns liquidity and distribution across both sides from the crypto side and from the fed side and. We see that a lot of institution already see like that and they integrate their products with the crypto and as for us we also do it with banks in Asia so that's what exponentially growing fast and it depends on how many people will introduce crypto in their own life so have a positive. We have a lot of information for our clients and I think this industry will growing rapidly. Right right well you know let let me go back over to climb club are we waiting for our recovery in our space that's not you know maybe the recovery is already underway it's just not taking the form that we'd expect with with our little K shaped economy here in the US and arguably in other parts of the globe. We're constantly being told I constantly see pundits saying oh no it's actually not that bad the economy is doing pretty well which is very reassuring it's like oh I thought it was broke but it turns out I'm not so you know it's it seems like wealth is consolidating toward the top consolidating with institutions and that seems to be. The 2026 narrative writ large the narrative that overrides all the other narratives is that kind of what we're dealing with just going into going into q4. Well I mean the several points there I mean there's this Marxist agit crop about K shaped economies and then there's what's going on with crypto which are not really the same thing. But you know if you want to split away the K shaped economy which is just a gap between the active and the passive if you're passive you're screwed now and if you're active you're going to make a load of money. Okay same with crypto right if you were active when this all kicked off you made yourself very rich and if you sat there when you're going to go on to X and complain oh moan moan moan then you're screwed right so put that to one side crypto is waiting for one thing. And that is an application a use case where the use cases we're how many years now 16 years where the use cases. Yeah good question we're going to do everything better than tradify now it seems like the best we can do is possibly a six tradify. That's part of the problem what you just said forget forget money forget finance crypto is about a way of unlocking lots of things that are unobtainable under the old method. Yeah ways of doing business ways of doing things ways of living your life which are unlocked by permissionless crypto crypto tokens yeah and that's what crypto was all about. A way of stepping around the man a way of stepping around authority away of just getting on with it and doing cool groovy things that are permissionless right that's not just right. Right right and you know it hasn't it's not doing much finance now is it and on top of that it's not doing anything else either so what's happened is everybody's got attacked by greed. Oh I can make millions overnight oh yeah do you see that guys a billionaire now yeah right it sounds like money for nothing in chips for free lyrics and because everybody's fixated in finance rather than doing stuff that has meaning and use it's like dead in the water. Yeah until people come along what now that the the boo is off the neck of American developers when it comes to crypto for example people can use blockchain and crypto to do meaningful things if they stop trying to be billionaires overnight it's there to be done but nobody's doing it. No nobody's doing it is pathetic right and we've got a real we've got a period of pretty constricted innovation you know during some of the more foolish times you know well foolish I mean in retrospect yeah the NFT craze for example. And it's a good example that's a great example look think about the NFT craze right now today the most valuable artwork ever created on planet surface are crypto punks yeah some total of that work of art which is broken into 10,000 pieces is more valuable than practically anything by the Mona Lisa yeah somebody used a use case for crypto and blockchain and it's sunny amazing and even though everybody's wanting always the opposite. And it's still worth hundreds of millions and so even for the apes is so when it was applied to a use case for art which is a cripple format in the real world these days nonetheless exploded something and made something incredible well nobody else is trying to do it anywhere else and therefore there's a vacuum and that's the problem all this talk of finance is totally missing the point. I mean I took communist claptrap about K shaped economies and then go straight back to finance I mean come on there's more to the world to money even I've got a lot of it well yeah but you said people who are inactive I mean you know like your characterization of the economy as soon as that there's an even playing field here and there's not. So it's never going to be an even playing field so people are inactive because they do not have the look capital to invest like right now our economy is rewarding to those who invest and no one else but that's the K shaped economy I'm talking about. Sure invest you know that that's got certain meanings to it and certain underlying concepts yeah they haven't got money to invest because they're never saved you know 17% of Americans have got not a pot to pee in after the end of their whole life they never say it to penny right well you know so yeah they're on the wrong leg of the K you know it goes back to the Greek mythology doesn't it the the hair and the tortoise the end and the grasshopper well if you're a grasshopper but you're screwed. Yeah, except in this case, the grasshoppers informed the union to keep the tourists, to keep the little ants out. I mean, like, you know, come on, man, the consolidation at the time. Answer doing great. Answer doing great. Okay. All right, I don't know about that, man. But let me go over to Spiric. You had your hand up. So do you want to add, man? Yeah, I want to say that claim is downright. Today, WebTree teams to have no usage. But in the truth, WebTree adds so much value to the world. The value of WebTree is immense. It just take a look at Filecoin. What Filecoin allows you is to sell active storage cloud without doing marketing. So anyone can be a provider, Filecoin. And this is pretty everything. This is the point in the WebTree space. You can be the provider on something just by joining a protocol. You don't need to set up an entire company to make it. So imagine that you want to provide more security. You run an Ethereum node. You run an Avalidator node. And you even earn money. And in the future, this is going to happen even for websites. Imagine a like Twitch. Twitch spends most of their money. They are basically losing money because they are the added to sustain a lot of servers. And this is not sustainable. At the point that they charge a piece of 50% to the creator. But if you create a decentralized Twitch, the entire system can run child users. So the cost of servers lifts down to zero. This is the immense value that WebTree brings to the world. And currently there are no interfaces to access this new world in a very easy manner. This is a lack that even Vitalik Buterin has underlined over the time. But still, this is an unfilial point on WebTree. I can't imagine my dead using WebTree, because that's the complex. But even at my friend, I can't imagine another idea of my fans using WebTree. Yeah, let's go ahead and pivot into talking about some narratives that have kind of underperformed this year. Let me go over to Asterium. I've been kind of surprised that the AI narrative hasn't taken off a little bit more. Of course, big tech AI is also having problems in terms of like, you got open AI, spending a buck $65 for every dollar that it makes. You've got, they're running into this problem where there's simultaneously crying that there is an apocalyptic problem here if the government doesn't start taking an active hand in it, which, of course, I do agree with the regulation. But they also seem to have suspiciously run through their initial fundraise without really coming up with anything that was going to make money. Is everything in our space seems the boil down to whether it can make money or not? And there's not a hell of a lot of patience, either. I'll point to GameFi as another example. I don't know if we've ever cracked that code. I mean, there's still GameFi projects out there. But what is it going to take to break through as a narrative in Q4, 2020, 2006 or going into the next year? Or is this a matter of that's it? Our time of just open experimentation is done. And now you need to be making a revenue or people are not going to be interested in you. What do you think the stereotype? Well, it's interesting case. Justin, I can say about product. Most of crypto companies now start building their own agents. And there are a lot of potential with this. And we can say that in our company, we build agents that pay for things, for our clients. And there are a lot of interesting developments now building in the big stun and in the central Asia. So if you could say that what's the most interesting thing will be in the future for I think it's going to be I agents and decentralized protocols with I agent. So for the banks, if we talk about the banks in the central Asia in this big stun, blanks, real weren't built for that for now. And for the next year, I think they are introducing this agents to real banking will be a great future. So if your agents can start buying the data, it will collect more strategies and will help to optimize trading for algorithmic traders if you compute and services on their own. So it will be help to generate more money for their strategies and so for the clients. So in this case, we can attend our attention at this moment. And the next thing is a wave of IE tokens. It's a lot of hype around here. And the next one will be about things that agents can rely on every day. So for my best, if it could be payments, verification and building data. So that's it. And the last one, that I will say that we have for my point of view paying customers, not just a client who wants to use this app, but they also will introduce I agents for their side of trading or collect specific data and manage their portfolio as well. So it will be like a next product that clients will use in the next year. I think at the point of view that I see. All right. A great point. Let me go over to try and abbreviate my question a little bit. So it's only two or three questions to stay at 17. Are we moving to a time clam where the blockchain space is no longer interested in these abstract projects. You've got to have clients or revenue coming in. And is that the same stick that they're beating these IE tokens with? They're just not actualized enough. They're not producing revenue. Well, it's a great point. But it's a point that I think everybody's kind of missing. AI tokens, crypto tokens, why are they the same? Why can't they be the same? Why can't AI tokens? Why can't you buy them and then feed them to an AI company like Anthropic? Why can't you then transfer them? Why can't you earn them? Why can't you, why can't I have any currency too? And the arts is very simple. There's those sort of companies are totally scared of crypto for two reasons. Yeah. One, when Zuckerberg said, I'm going to have token. They nearly threw him in jail. They hung him upside down by his toes. Did you say it just like that club? Is that what Mark, is that what Zuckerberg sounds like? I don't know. It's a long time since I sat next to him. Anyway, so the point is corporations plus money is very scary thing. And there's this incredible kid is here, all that all crypto has. And it's just a killer, I think. I think this is the thing that really kills the whole scene. It's security. Yeah, you can't reverse it. When some North Korean still $300 million last week, it's gone. No one's ever been able to do that with banks. So the trouble is, is that until someone comes up with a reversible blockchain where somebody in authority can go, right, we're having that back now. We're putting that all back. We're canceling that. Until that happens, you know, you're always going to have this existential problem of some new special North Korean AI this time coming over and stealing everything. Now, that saves us from central bank, additional blockchain currency, because they will never be able to risk having all their money stolen by North Korea. And remember, when I had this conversation with you nine months ago, and I said, there's no such thing as a cold wallet, not even a hard wallet, hardware wallet. And everybody said, oh, hardware wallet, no, no, you can't hack them. And then recently, a hard wallet got hacked. So, you know, the lack of security is a massive, massive impediment. And the fear of the government landing on you like a ton of bricks, because you're inventing your own private sector money, is the other reason. There's no reason why AI tokens couldn't be a multi-trillion-dollar cryptocurrency, apart from those two things. Right, that's a great point. An interesting point about cold storage, not even being safe. I mean, I think the problem with security is that, because I take a little bit of an interest in the subject, folks. I don't have a technical background, so it's not like that. But I've spoken about a lot of respect how important it is. And the thing is, the tricks that that scammers are using on us don't really change. The technology changes. But for the most part, most scams you run into are still fishing scams on some level or another. So as long as there is you, a human involved in the equation, there's a weakness in your system. Even if you've got it, as Clem said, on one of those titanium cards you used to be able to buy, where it's all, you know, on cold storage, go ahead, white label. You want to add something? I wanted to add something, but it does more both the beginning of the question, right? Like because you mentioned the wrong, now a project needs to make revenue, right? And I think this is one part of the question where I'm not really tackled. This is what we all see today, right? Like they just much less funding at this, like, from all points that we've like, for smaller projects. So they need to have like much contraction. And from 1224, I think we've been forgetting a little bit to look into revenue metrics, right? And this all unfolded like the last two years. And now project they need to have revenues. They need to make profit. They need to make money somehow. And so hoping that I think I'm going to be in the best, are the focal where there is some kind of like the ref share component, right? Like people can be called dividend. People can get some hoping being aired off. We see a lot of it from people starting and online quick, because you know with us, some of them tokenize their own and that enough. And then they give on a weekly basis the proceeds of their, of the case, you know, either running. Then they give it back to the open holder. So we see more and more a protocol where they want to have this revenue share mechanism tied in at smart contract level, because people don't want governance on the end longer. People want to switch, right? And this is what we've been experiencing in the last couple of months. Right. Right. Definitely. Everyone go ahead and follow everyone on the panel. By the way, we've got some great speakers today. Folks, no hands for a second here, because I'm going to go over to bits. I'm going to go to Dennis and then I'll hit and it does an eight blocks. I just want to make sure I'm going around evenly. My order gets a little bit more confused when I'm calling on people raising their hands. So Fitz, why has everyone given up an AI tokens? Like what's going on there, man? I mean, obviously there's like huge ups. There's huge potentiality of the technology itself. Is what's going on in the crypto world? Just reflective of what's going on with big tech AI to begin with. They also are having trouble showing profitability. And I wouldn't say they're having trouble doing fundraising yet. They certainly did a lot of that, but people are calling for a bubble. What are your thoughts on it overall, Fitz? Hey, thanks for the opportunity. I think it's a very interesting time in the tech world. Just very briefly, just 10 seconds kind of thing. My name is Michael Fitzgerald, aka Fitz, for anybody that doesn't know me. I'm really focused on the future of cybersecurity, especially as it pertains to the rise of quantum computing and what quantum computing will be disrupting in the future. Regarding AI tokens and kind of that whole realm, it feels like just watching some birds fly over topics in a nice beautiful morning here. Sorry, I'm a little distracted by the birds fly over. It feels like the AI companies, the Anthropics, the Open AI's of the world, and all the AI startups that are emerging from this wave of new technology. I put a lot of stock into a Gartner's hype cycle. And just again, for context, it attempts to map the point at which we are with regards to hype as it pertains to an emerging technology. So artificial intelligence, a relatively established emerging technology, where is it on the hype cycle and you can kind of map any emerging technology along a curve and it kind of holds true. One kind of stage of the emergence of a technology as it pertains to hype is referred to as the trough of disillusionment. And that's, I think we are in the trough of disillusionment when it comes to artificial intelligence, meaning as you pointed out, revenue is not as expected. Financial markets are looking at some of these artificial companies who haven't even IPO'd yet. Like, I mean, it's still a possibility. I don't think it's actually going to happen, but it's still a possibility that Open AI could not IPO. You know, it could fail. And it could not meet its fundraising targets for Series G, Series H or whatever it's in. And people are like, you know what? No, it's not going to IPO. And it's not going to become a publicly traded company. Right. That's still the world that we're in when you zoom out. And it feels like ChatGPT is going to be around for a while because a lot of people continue to use it. They're recent dev days thing where they're claiming that 1.2 billion weekly active users, it's obviously here and probably not going anywhere. But from the financial perspective, it's still like, where are they going to get more revenue? And how are they going to hit their targets? So I think there's just still a lot of uncertainty and a lot of volatility when it comes to the forecasting of the future of these AI companies. So that probably is leading to a lot of uncertainty in terms of investment. So we just laying in the bed that we've made here. We had a good, what, 10, 12 years of being able to pitch on speculative value. Now people are just looking for, you know, have an actual business, you know, show us some revenue. That's why people are going for like exchanges are doing okay, but stable coins are doing okay. There's a useful purpose for those. What do you think Dennis, is our space just to grown up at this point to have tolerance for these ideas that are just giganticly speculative, you know, 1,000 X in your mean coin, 1,000 X in your more, your NFT. Go ahead, Dennis. All right, Justin, very good to be here. Thanks for the opportunity. So I'm with a token locker. We are with three platforms for creators. Just, you know, I joined with my personal accounts by accident. Very deep. Yeah, absolutely. So we visit most of the events since 2020 because we really like the vibe of supporting local communities. And we try to organize a little bit of side events here and there mostly on the large conferences we do that. Simply because it's fascinating to see that local communities grow and small conferences become large conferences like token 2049 became the biggest conference out of nowhere, basically, because previously it was just small events, 10 times smaller than they actually are nowadays, even on the bear market. So coming back to narratives. Honestly, I feel like every narrative comes down to the same thing and two things, basically. And I do believe that we'll see meme coins that will do thousand texts and we'll see some NFTs, randomly pumping. But in general, I feel like those fake use cases and pseudon narratives don't work anymore. Like, for example, AI tokens, stable coins. Yeah, we'll remember the times when AI token would just by itself be the value of the product to the project just the name of AI token. But I think that a lot of people got burned out, burned, ended up at loss. So we don't trust those narratives anymore. Although there are a lot of opportunities to make actual use cases with AI tokens, with stable coins. So we just need to manage our expectations and making sure that we invest in actual narratives and actual use cases. Not just logos and labels, et cetera, if it makes sense. Well, here's the thing though, Dennis. Has meme coins as a concept become passé? Because I can see that within our space, but I can also see, tradfied, particularly one of my favorite people, Elon Musk, adopting some of the hype machine that used to go along with meme coins and into things like SpaceX. I would call it, what is SpaceX? So it's a turduckin of four different companies that work profitable, spliced together, and then sold for 1.7 trillion on the day it went IPO. Seem like a meme coin tactic to me, what do you think, man? I mean, isn't that based on kind of a narrative more than anything else? We're going to colonize Mars. We're going to put data centers in space. Good to have, Elon Musk, friend of the best guess here. mention. Yeah, absolutely. Like if you asked me that question, let's say two years ago, I would say that meme coins is just a dead narrative. But after what we saw with Trump coins, Langer coins, all the other coins, but but the policy fight, et cetera. And I mean, I wouldn't be surprised if it became an actual thing. Slowly, with tradfied real liquidity coming into meme coins as we saw just recently. All right. So what's your guys? They're not unfamiliar to increased overvalued tokens with no value, right? Right. Right. Definitely. Everyone, I'm going to go into about quarter after, by the way, so about another half an hour. Some people have to drop off at the top of the hour. That's OK. I'm going to go over to eight blocks just so I'm not ignoring anybody. And then I'll go back over to Klem who had his hand up. All right. Eight blocks. Who with us, man? Yes, yes, I'm your. So, you know, Perp Dex's, they're producing real revenue. Is that enough to make them a major investment narrative? I mean, it's been kind of a hip little thing to talk about up till now. But, you know, is there a, are you looking for any significant activity around there? Yes. Actually, it's an interesting question. I think the revenue is definitely a strong signal than comparing to attention over the token price. But revenue is also isn't enough. Yes. So I would look at where the revenue comes from, how much of its sense is size. And whether token actually captures any of the economic activity yet, also protocol can generate the revenue while the token actually doesn't link to it, doesn't capture any or little value. Also, just coming back little bit to AI and the tokens, I think some of the people here also mentioned what I'm trying to tell right now is that it's actually what crypto actually and what problems tokens solve in terms of AI technology. Yes. So it's not about launching a token on the hype of AI wave. Yes. So it shoots us some utilities and should provide some use cases for the holders of the token. Also, the overall AM market, yes. I think it's kind of overheated right now, especially looking how much capital is flowing into companies that actually have only concepts and technology, but has no or little or no revenue at all. So in this case, I'm actually quite aligned with Michael Beres, Beres, you on the current investment cycle of AI. So I think it's a little bit overheated. And just too big. I think it's for the in terms of investment, people should be careful about it. Of course, there are large companies like Android, but there are a lot of startups that are actually getting a lot of funding. But of course, there is a real use case. The technology is real. It's we use it every day or in and out every day. But still, it's quite risky right now, because taking into account how much funds been allocated into AI startups and technology, I think it's something that can, it's not a bubble, yes, but something that people should be careful of. Right. I'm angry. I'm going to avoid the pivot off of the AI topic for now. It definitely is overheated. You could definitely see that in the press, because it's beginning to feel the press has been talking about it constantly for two and a half years. I think there's a enormous potential in the technology, but it gets to be a little bit, let's see, I'm showing my age here. But I don't know if anybody here was around to hear the Macarena be popular, but like you had so much Macarena going on at the time that you just wanted to stab your eyes out to make the song go away. Everything was Macarena. It was everywhere. And there's always a backlash to that. And inevitably, it gets played out. People get tired of hearing about it. Clem, I'm going to go back over to you. What is... maybe a more boring narrative that people aren't looking at right now. I don't see a lot of crypto headlines talking about the weakening bond market, for example, and what that might do to staking in our space, which is some of that that's held true. What do you think are the opportunities people are maybe not taking a look at because they're not as sexy? Well, first thing you've got to realize is white collar is going to have a problem. Blue collar is going to have a boom because America has decided that he doesn't want to bend the need to China, which now has two and a half times more electricity than America and makes all the stuff which America can no longer make, much of it including 10 inch nails and chips. So America is going to ensure 30 years of offshoring as fast as possible. Well, the cost of that is just astronomical. And to do that, they're going to print money like no tomorrow. So there's going to be lots of inflation and an economic boom. So if you can climb up on roofs and nail shingles down, for example, you'll be absolutely in the jam. If you can fix an HVAC, you'll be doing great. If you can lay tarmac, you'll be fine. You'll be brilliant. Right. There'll be pain you through the notes for that. If you're a white collar guy that sits around the office jabbering with his coworkers, you're going to be on your out on your rear very soon. So that's also the AI build out is already giant, but it's going to be even bigger. Because as our friend Donald said, whoever wins AI wins, okay, and that's absolutely true. Does anybody disagree? Everyone would like to disagree with President Trump, but he's absolutely right there. So I have to build that out. Well, there's another 10 trillion. They're going to have to print. Yeah, and that's going to cause a boom, massive boom. Now, the thing about AI, everybody poop, poop, pooing it. Think about this. 45% of the value of the American stock exchanges, which is after all, just about these days, 45% of what America's worth full stock is seven companies. And every single one of them is involved up to their nipples in it in software. Well, AI unleashes software so that even old crumbly is like me and you, Justin, can write our own. In fact, I'm doing that while I'm listening to all this. I'm actually writing code, right, and it's going to be a business and it's going to make me money. Yeah. So you imagine that now the magic source has been broken out from the people that work in those seven companies to everything. How much value add is that? It's absolutely gigantic. And that's just coding. Forget all the other stuff. So you're we're about to go in a highly inflationary boom economy as America tries to at least work. You could say stay ahead of China or stay neck and neck with China or as I might say catch up with China. So big hairy deal for the next 20 years, right? So yeah, get off the lower K leg. You can't be passive because you're going to get horribly left behind or you get active. However best you can. Why are we suggesting that people who are working three jobs trying to make a living or passive man? It sounds like we're talking down. How the hell are they working three jobs and not to be full of money? Because they're doing because they're doing Uber and they've got a job. I don't know what came. Why not came already anymore? I don't want you know people who are just trying to make it around here. Uber's not a bad take. Uber's $780 grand take as I remember. That's gone down. It's not as good as it used to be. So what counts as inactive? Are you just talking about investing, right? Because at this point, investing is active. Yeah, it's the sort of people that watch television all afternoon. Yeah, television viewers viewing has gone up. There's so many people now who actually work from home are actually just watching television all afternoon. Yeah, I don't know, man. I see a lot of people struggling and I see more than ever. Like the expectation when I was a kid, you most households were one family, where one income households. Then it subtly moved to two income households because both parents work. Now we're getting up to everybody's expected to have a job and a side hustle. That's mon mon mon. Everybody's moaning. All those bloody great SUVs, cheering up for the food bank. You just see the problem was, you know, man, seeing the food banks with the cues of giant SUVs, queuing up. Yeah, you see that? You go, oh dear, I've got a giant SUV, I'll go down the food bank. I'll go on next and start moaning. You read those posts. Everybody's moaning from Timbuktu to Kathmandu. Mo, mo, mo, mo, mo, mo. Well, you know, if you're going to be a pessimist and you're going to moan, you are going to perish. I'm not, I'm not being pessimist. I sincerely believe we need to break up some of our monopolies that we have going on here. We are, you know, Donald Trump was correct. We entered another gilded age and he certainly helped with that. But that's not a compliment from an economic point of view. There was, there was a great deal of of suffering around the last. You Americans don't even know your born. Don't know your born. You go around the rest of the world and tell me about it. Don't know my what? My board. I didn't understand. I said you don't know your born. It's a phrase, meaning who you trying to kid? Go around the world and then tell me about hardship and tell me about hard luck and tell me about hard scramble. Yeah. Okay. You know, no, no, dear, oh dear. You've got to go. I know Doritos are $7. Let me go over, let me go over to a stereo and we're going to go up and down the row one last time and try and wrap it up here. So what narrative are you looking to kind of close out the year with? What are you feeling most bullish about? Particularly if it's something that's maybe getting a little bit less attention or it's a little bit less exciting. What do you think, Esquirem? Just let's you talk about narrative and just thinking that we now bring people coming back because we're going to break 50 K and 10 K and so on. For my point of view, the revenue that's still there after the incentives stops if the users keep showing up as they probably are dropped on talking distribution from projects is over and there are some going but they use this product. They use the community because it's hard to build a strong community now. I think it's a lot of foundation and maybe Robin Hood, some exchanges community are great now and not so many products. And other numbers are easy to fake like TBL or a quantity of traders. And the wallet also. So liquidity can be rented and bonds can inflate transaction counts. The developer activity also could increase. And the real question is what we should investigate now, how many users real use crypto and what's projects built in the real sector to use crypto. And for my point of view, I also watch whether a company's outside crypto starts using something like a tell in my previous speech, the AI agents or crypto cars as well. And when payments company, for example, a retailer or a bank, small bank in the county, quite a plus it's without a big press release and use crypto. That's usually a good than just a narrative about meme coins that do you want to and X. So that's my point of view. If I give you the answer to your question. Okay, excellent. And not financial advice by the way folks at home, we're just kind of talking about ideas here. A blocks, how about you, what narratives are you looking for to really perform in Q4, particularly if there's anything that's getting a little bit less press. Yes, I think in terms of narratives, yes, they change from time to time. One narrative can be forgotten, for example, if we take a game-file sector. Yes, so we remember the big hype and the tension that the game-file brings to us like the projects like X and Infinity, yes, and stuff like that. But then it cooled off at some point and then we saw as you end-way it with the telegram in apps, which also attracted a lot of users and people to creep the world. So I think you should consider all sectors and at some point there could be some project that can bring this sector to life again. Yes, so it's important also to make your own research. Look for the documentation, the economics and stuff like that. It's something that sometimes considered as not as important, but actually it's one of the things that when you look at the project investing,