History of NI-CIA-P|Jack Brewer & James Carrion|#UFOhistoryGroup

just maybe a good different type of approach than has been typically put. And I think we've got some good feedback from it, I think people show up and tend to like to listen. But that's what we've been doing here. So our goal here is to have a nice regiment in space where we're on topic. Hopefully we have conversation, too. Again, anyone's welcome to do that. But we've been doing this for, I don't know, the last seven weeks with some success. Good for you. I have had somewhat of an eye on your activities and those along with Steve Long and some other people you've spoken with and other researchers that monitor the UFO genre. And I appreciate the work you're doing. Thank you. Well, that means a lot to me. Thank you, Jack. No one that you would listen to him. So yeah, we're just trying to keep, just keep an honest look into as accurately historically. We can look at things and maybe drive disgust or at least create a baseline for folks. So that's the hope and I'm really happy to hear the feedback. All right, you guys ready? I guess we can go on and do the introduction. Should I introduce Jack and James first or just introduce Knightap in general? Let's introduce our guests and then we can introduce the subject. And maybe first we do housekeeping. You only do housekeeping really quick just so people understand what they can, you know, with free. Yeah, sure. Yeah, man, go on. So yeah, just really quick housekeeping. Like anybody can raise their hand, join the panel. What we'll do is we'll do an introduction. We'll introduce the format which will be basically set in the stage for different chunks of the topic, which Grider will announce with a quick overview and if anyone wants to come up, I certainly have James and Jack respond or add whatever they'd like to those specific chunks of topics, but we'll give an overview of kind of like a timeline like we have done. So if you've been to this space before and you're familiar with the format, that's how we'll conduct it today. So again, if you want to request to come up do that at any time and I will signal when it's time to kind of jump in and ask questions or make comments or whatever you want to do. But that'll be the format, the housekeeping rule is just that rule rules, but let's keep it on topic, let's be respectful. Things I shouldn't have to say, but we'll enforce it either way. But other than that, yeah, let's go to Grider for introductions of our guests and of our topic. All right, so our two special guest speakers today are just, I mean, I'm super excited for these two gentlemen to be joining us. Of course, Mr. Carian has been with us before on I think three separate occasions when he went toe-to-toe with Don Schmidt, which was just highly entertaining. And James always brings a wealth of knowledge. So I'll go on and start with Jack. Jack's our newcomer, welcome Jack. And so Jack Brueh is an investigative writer, researcher and author whose work examines not only the UFO phenomena, but the people, institutions, and intelligence networks that have shaped how the subject is understood. He is the author of the Graves have been framed, exploitation in the UFO community, which I love by the way, which is a critical examination of alien abduction research, regression hip, noces, questionable investigative practices, and the potential exploitation of witnesses and experiences. Brueh later published Wayward Sons, NICAP and the IC, an extensive historical investigation into the National Investigations Committee on Aerial Phenomena, NICAP. And it's complicated relationship with members of the US military, the intelligence community, and the Cold War National Security establishment. Since 2010, Brueh has also been the author of the UFO Trail where he has explored UFO history, government secrecy, siops, intelligence activity, and the evidentiary problems that often surround extraordinary claims. Most of his research is heavily grounded in primary source documentation, including FOIA requests, government files, archival correspondence, organizational records, and historical reporting. Brueh is also a co-founder and trustee of the expanding Frontiers Research, which is an organization dedicated to archival preservation, transparency, and rigorous investigative methodology. What makes Jack Brueh's work especially valuable, in my opinion, is that he just focuses on really a deceptively simple question, not just what happened, but also how do we actually know what we think we know? And that's something that is kind of the theme of a lot of his work that I've seen, and I'm just a huge fan, really, really happy to have him in the space. Everybody welcome Jack Brueh. And hopefully I got everything right, Jack. And thank you, that's a very thorough and flattering introduction. I appreciate that. I'm glad to be here. Awesome. You're very, very welcome, sir. And hopefully this is the start of maybe you want to become a regular here at the history group. I mean, this is just very, very, very excited to have you. So James, I've given you three different biographical introductions. So I've tried to mix this one up a little bit, so apologize if I missed the mark here, but James Carian is one of the most unconventional figures in modern UFO research. A former US Army, Russian, linguist, and intelligence analyst, cyber security professional author and the former international director of the Mutual UFO Network, better known as Mufon. Carian entered Mufon as an investigator and helped modernize the organization's archival and case management systems before becoming the international director in 2006. During his tenure, he was directly involved in Mufon's controversial relationship with Bigelow Aerospace Advanced Space Studies, BAS, a connection later revealed to be linked to the Pentagon-funded OSCEP program. Of course, James had no knowledge that he was dealing with an intermediary between the government and himself. He only found that out later in 2011 when he read a New York Times article, right? So he's absolved of any, you know, he got lied to by Bigelow. After years of examining UFO case files, intelligence history, and the role of government agencies in the subject, he became increasingly focused on a question really asking Eiffology. What if some of the UFO narratives were not merely misunderstood events, but deliberate products of military deception, counterintelligence, or siops? The question became the foundation of his books and Achronism, the Cold War's Greatest Secret and the Roswell Deception, which examined the 1946 ghost rocket wave and the flying saucer wave explosion of 1947 and Roswell through the lens of Cold War intelligence operations. Today's Carian's work challenges researchers and the community to look beyond the question of whether UFO stories are true and instead ask who created the information, how it spread, who benefited from it and whether the deception itself may be part of the phenomenon. Everybody welcome James Carian back to the UFO history group. And one thing I want to say is that I think if you haven't noticed, I think one thing that Mr. Brewer and Mr. Carian Boe's share is kind of that baseline mentality of not really looking at the stories for their fantastical value, but trying to figure out the sources, trying to figure out the origin, trying to figure out, well, if there's a document out there, where did you get the document from? Where did that document? Where's the source of that document? Like not so much analyzing at the first level, thinker level, right? Are not even being a first level critical thinker, but looking beyond that, looking at the more complex nuances and of course finding primary sources, which is really, really important, I think, when I do research, I don't care who ended up with the document. I care where the document came from and where the story came from, where the information came from, I don't want to know, the back channel signal chat, seventh or eighth telephone call, conversation that caused us to learn about this information. Like I want to know who was in that first phone call. Like I want to know the source in these two gentlemen, they take an approach where they really, it's a critical analytical and fact-based approach to the topic and of course they acknowledge the fact that there could be something to this as far as the extra terrestrial hypothesis, but they really focus on what we do have evidence of and that's kind of the counterintelligence angle to this, kind of the psychological warfare aspect of the phenomena, which is a part of the phenomenon, right? Like it's not just ETs and flying saucers and these two gentlemen have done a wealth of work, had done a wealth of research and kind of pursuing that angle to find the truth out, right? That is one angle, like you don't have to go at it, at one specific kind of tunnel vision route. It's like these gentlemen kind of found a way to find truth without taking it in the mainstream route. So that's kind of my introduction for James and Jack and I kind of like the ring of James and Jack. So we're going to forego the formalities that we've been accustomed to here and just go by James and Jack. So thank you guys again and Mr. Carrey and if you want to say anything and then just give it a brief introduction if I miss anything or anything you want to say before we get started and then I'll go in and let Austin have introduced himself and I guess Gene's not going to be joining us, but then I'll go in and give a brief overview of NICAP and then we'll delve right into talking about this. So I think you can use the video or something. Oh, figures, yeah, figures. James, so what's up? How are you doing and what do you think of the intro and what do you think of the space and what are your expectations? Yeah, again, I appreciate your imitation. I really enjoy these discussions with the group. I think anytime you can get a group of critical thinkers in the same space and hash things out without in the result team to drama or hyperbole and just stick to the facts and the evidence, it's always a good day. So I really appreciate the very nice introduction and I do want to say that Jack and I are kindred spirits. I've known Jack for a long time. I think we both what really drives us to do this kind of work is that it eats us up to see all these red flags that pop up in the UFO subject that nobody seems to want to address, either because they're inconvenient or because the narrative is more compelling and the need to believe deserves more of their attention. So I think both Jack and I have seen this happen time and time again and so we are super focused on just getting to the basics, getting to the evidence, to the documentary evidence, to form hypotheses that we can try to explain through evidence and not just be taken by the narrative. So I really appreciate everybody's attending today and hopefully all you critical thinkers out there will get something out of today's discussion. Yeah, I would add thank you James that yes, James and I have been watching each other's work a while and exchanging documents and information that would be helpful to the other and I came to consider James as somewhat of a mentor in the way I would see him construct his research papers and his books and look for evidence to support or refute the theory that he was working on and I just echo his comments and I think that the introduction is pretty on the nose and again just thanks for having me. And I will add that Jack is the nightcap expert here, I am not so I'm looking forward to this discussion as well because he's a wealth of knowledge with all the research he's done in tonight cap and the intelligence community and all the work he continues to do through FOIA requests so I'm looking to learn myself tonight. Awesome, Greta do you want to introduce yourself and then I'll do my quick thing and then I'll maybe rehash the housekeeping invitation for speakers and then we'll get into the format. No man just go and introduce yourself and then I'll go and introduce myself and then go into the introduction for nightcap. Yeah, oh, wait. Well I mean unless you have something that you're taking care of right now that you want me to. No I'm laughing because my introductions are hilariously tiny and I'm just humble to be here. It's terrifying to speak at a topic that there are little experts in the room too so I want to do that justice that's always when I come up here and speak, this is harder than it looks. This is a hobby that I take very seriously and I think I try to pose my own questions and try my own hypotheses and try and live the virtues of critical thinking. James Stryphicord there I think this topic does this to everybody. You want to know what the hell the UFO was and where it came from and who's inside of it and sometimes we have to go back and ask the question that why are we surrounded by CIA agents and why are certain stories going around and where did those stories come from? So I think that's the little tidbit I want to drop back.