BIP-110 LIVES ON by Fred Krueger

bands are saying the most amazing thing with Bitcoin is he got censored, he got filtered out. Sam, you're happy that Bitcoin didn't have house. No, it's not like I wasn't the main thing I objected to Fred was how hot people came in. Like, I think it's actually healthy to have these debates. I think debates are helpful. I was just pissed that no one likes being spoken down to. There were some people who were very aggressive, very, I don't know, like the purity test was a kind of an insult. You were being told how to think. That's the part I objected to. The actual issue itself, I thought it was good to be it. I think people learned a bunch. So I wouldn't say I'm happy it's defeated. I just I just don't like the communication method of some of those guys. I remember, Sam, you were kind of probic when you were 10 years old. And then they just they act so whole year than now. The purity test that we've got everybody in trouble with cool, you know what? This thing is so pure, it's like the big one. You're like, okay, so you felt for the purity aspect. Yeah, there's kind of a weird contradiction there that some people feel the need to tell other bit-kinders. I don't know what that is, that some people think they're somehow more bona fida than everyone else. That never lands well. People reject. No one likes being spoken down to. I think that was the main thing. It was like a grass of asteroid. Now we're talking about those people were coming into spaces and they didn't even say hi. They're like getting into this aggressive shouting, threatening. It was just, I don't know, I don't know. It's a matter of a sort of passive aggressive. I would say, you know, hi, this is Matthew Pratter, Bitcoin University. Let me tell you how sailors completely and utterly self-destroying themselves. I didn't find it amusing. The style of it is very funny, but I think I understand it's a lot of people off, I guess. Yeah, I will say the interesting about the fundamentalists. They got drilled in both kneecaps, if you really think about it, because they were the cold carters and they were the Bitcoin centers. They got drilled in the rain of nuts. Well, the third part is strategy isn't in fact going to zero. That's the third one, Chef. So they were kind on the wrong side of that deal too. One thing I didn't like is when they were signaling that they were perfectly comfortable that Bitcoin goes to like, yeah, Ben Pals. Like, yeah, we're very happy. We don't care about the price at all. We want, in fact, if you go to 10,000, that's even better. Let's just bankrupt. Oh, God, please, really? I think a Bitcoin went to 10,000. I'd be out. I'm holding this up to 10 grand to deal with us for another four to eight to 10 years. I think it'd be very silly. My not be buying out. It would actually scare me the things I would do to get money to buy more Bitcoin if it went to 10,000. I'd be like, I don't know. Yeah. I guess my only argument is him. If we went to 130 and we've round tripped to 10, like, it shows that people don't value the asset and are going, it's not a marketplace of exchange, right? Like that's what money, like it facilitates that. So, yeah, it doesn't have that value. That's the only thing that made me nervous. I understand why it's happened in the past, the having and the picking up the coins and like, I get all that. But if we're, we've gone down so many having, if there's 99% of supply there in we round tripped to 10,000 or less than 10,000, I don't know why anybody would put their money in this. I think the most bullish thing that could happen is if Bitcoin posts a new all-time high this year, and the four-year cycle is finally, finally, finally, they have no way, I'd write. There's no, there's no more escape clauses. Like, oh, yeah, oh, yeah. But if you look at this different graph, if it's finally like debunked, man, that just leaves the power law, right? And then if you look at the power law, you can project where this thing's going over time. I think that'll be super, super, super bullish long term. Because there's no fear of, you know, over time, the pullbacks get less. So that scares fewer people. So more people come in. I just think that'll be so bullish if we post it in all time. Yeah, and then we really understood the individuals just say it would go lower because it has in the past either because if you look at the power law and all the recent having cycles, like, it all falls within, right? So that's the other argument that I always find reflecting our individuals will say, oh, it's going to go down and like, just do that with the for your cycles, like, you're kind of breaking the power law. Well, it has done in the past because it did do that in the past. It's very odd. But I'm just hoping with this now, I never, I'm hoping in a week to two weeks max, I never have to hear about with one thing again, or anybody trying to push any fork and hopefully just put the nail on the coffin for this type of behavior. I think we're going to, I think there's going to be a period of licking wounds and staying on recover. But I think there's going to be a new movement emerges out of this. And I have to say, I think it'll be a stronger movement. It'll be better organized, it'll have better people at the front because there is a split, like if you zoom out and look at this, there is definitely a split between fundamentalists and capitalists. That's the major split chip. And like we haven't heard about the consortium for a couple of weeks. Once they start getting vocal again, I feel like the fundamentalists are going to come out fighting. And I think there's probably worse to come in terms of potential forks. Yeah, it pisses me off about fundamentalists. It is a marketplace of exchange. And for people who use that marketplace, people to use that currency, it has to be applicable to them. So I hate, I know best. Fuck you, the only person who know best, so you can even argue that is the toe shit because it's his discovery, it's his invention. That's only person who knows best. So everybody else, it's a democracy of the miners and the nodes. And if you can't get past that, you never fucking understood Bitcoin either because that's what it is. It's a voting system, it's a voting system of hash. And you're just sad, impissing a moaning because you're upset and that work doesn't agree to you, well that's what Bitcoin is. So like fuck off and fork off. It's kind of like that everyone talks about 1980 for, but it's kind of like animal farm, right? The fundamentalists kind of got their energy from we don't want to be told what to do. We're going to bypass the institutions. And now that we're here and things are going pretty well, they're like, well, no one likes being told what to do, but we're going to tell you what to do. It's like everyone's equal, but we're more equal than others. That's the part that I found funny. And like how are you going to get adoption without the institutions? Like, let's have an honest conversation here. And like what, I guess like first thing, how do you get adoption without the institutions? Like that's first and foremost, but like what is an institution? An institution there because large part of the math is use some type of rail, some type of payment system and like this institution was created in the mainstream, right? Like if you want to get Bitcoin into mainstream, it is kind of like don't slay your, you will slay your heroes because like Bitcoin will become the quote, quote, institution. It's just kind of like the old, like Lincoln Park back in the day or the skateboarders, right? Like rail against the government. Like what was the government back then versus what the government is now? It's two completely different things. So like if you're going to become Bitcoin, you just have to accept and acknowledge like you will become the institution and you can't, there won't be anything to rail against. And you might like put some on about that, but if you really want to adopt, like that's the end state. It's like, you know when these people called Jeff Booth and they say the two systems can't coexist. That's interesting to think about, right? But in reality, it's kind of scary to think about if that's the main driver of the ideology, that's a very, I don't know, that's, it's a bit too radical, a bit too revolutionary, a bit too, I don't know, like what are you going to do? You're going to try to overthrow the government, overthrow the federal reserve. Like what's the end game? What's the end game for this ideology that doesn't want institutional adoption? Do these people even want widespread adoption? So it's kind of interesting. I think they're going to dig their heated zone even further, the more institutional adoption we see. Hey guy, it's just like politician, like they don't want the institution, they want to be the institution, right? The institution favors them when it's their way, right? It doesn't favor them when it's not their way and that's the petulant behavior that you see. It's very petulant, right? Yeah, it's childish. It's like, hey, I don't like it, I'm going to kick and scream. But it's their way, then they're not going to kick and scream. I heard one of the doomer guys recently talking about that Sam where it's like, how can a deflationary system coexist with an inflationary system? And I'm like, they definitely can because they're two different units of measure. But yeah, I don't want to get to the point where one has to completely collapse. I don't know, I think that's not like a, that wouldn't be my base case. But why would you be looking forward to like, you have this thing that you're a member of the community, you go on the internet, you talk about it, you're heavily invested in it. But the whole premise of your investment is that in order for it to pan out the way you want, like the world has to kind of go to shit. Like, they have a bunker and they think they'll be the one that's okay and safe. So they're betting, they'll make it. So there's two characters I think on one of them can be fundamentalists, one fictional and one very real. The fictional one is smegel, like he loves, he loves the precious things so much that it starts to destroy him. And the other one is Ted Kaczynski. Like, he, he reels against like authority and the institution so much that he just, I don't know, becomes a recluse and does nasty things. Like, I don't know, it's uncomfortable to think about that fundamentalist ideology. Like, what, what is the end game? Do you know what I mean? How much more fight do you put up as institutional adoption increases? That's the scary part for me because they're not going to back down. They're kind of married to this notion that, you know, people who are fiat-minded or bad for Bitcoin, they're going to reject them. So it's like, I don't know, it's hard to see it's hard to see how they come back into the backend under the umbrella was everyone else. They've kind of, I don't know, they've kind of drawn away. I was just thinking that Ted was reading some of these tweets and I'm like, yeah, I think they don't come back. I think they just kind of stop talking about it, but they probably hold a lot. They've touched a little bit. I don't think they're going to talk about it anymore because like, how would you? You just said like you're done with, you just said it's a garbage asset now that it's been captured. So you just look like a hypocrite. You know, I mean, I don't think you're just flipping like what you're understanding of the asset even is, like all the time. Because I don't know, I think these people that have from my like own observation have been in the space for over five years, but that are just suddenly shown up to the table late and having these opinions about core Bitcoin core making it this like centrally acting body. And it's now like quote unquote centralized and shit and like that something is mundane is like JPEGs or inscriptions could like compromise the network or it's just not not money anymore. It's not a monetary thing. I'm like, I don't know. I think none of that really flies in the face of like the white paper or like why you would have fundamentally hopped on board the Bitcoin train like 10 years ago anyway. Like if you were, if you understood Bitcoin as well as as you did 10 years ago and you told yourself in the future that there's going to be this like Twitter drama about like the details of opportune and like spam and all this crap is going to like persuade you that Bitcoin is now some sort of somehow compromised and centralized is like I think you would laugh. I think you would be like yeah that's that is nothing to do with what this thing really is. I don't even get the, honestly, I'll tell you the truth of PG. I don't even really get the premise. Right? Like do you even understand what how does having data in there even make it centralized? I don't even understand I can't connect the dots. Well I guess the centralized argument is the fact that like they're like oh well I guess core like core wins like they were just leaving it up to like these people at that organization but then if not one then it's good thing. Right? It's not centralized to these guys. The fact that it didn't. I just don't think it's a very Bitcoin way of looking. No it's not. It's flipping. They're kind of like the game the old bit of truck in town who's telling people I was here when this was all farmland and but not all developments bad right? So the guy who's saying I was here when this was all farmland. He's overlooking the fact that his time has been developed for the better. There's more taxes coming in schools are better. I just think sticking to that fundamentalist ideology is so it's like isolation is great. They are the high priestess of Bitcoin. I think how law of them see themselves is they know better. That's a really good example actually. That's exactly what that's a perfect analog. So do you know when talking about him or you just said? Yeah not a not all developments bad right? You get new roads, you get new invests. Yeah it's like I have this you have this plot of land. The OG guys you know I'm not going to name any names. They were there they had their farms and they're like oh the corn they got the livestock. They're like this is pretty sweet. This is a sweet place and then some people moved in you know black rock moved in they put a little bit of you know office parks schools went up into some roads you know and they don't like it. They're like what I'm a fucking cornfield bitch. And unfortunately that's kind of what's going on you know. Yeah it's uh but it doesn't grow up otherwise like do you want it doesn't it doesn't the time days the time eventually days you need football you need football you need new ideas. Now I'm not talking about changing the protocol but you do need new energy constantly for something to grow and they just seem to be resisting any change like it's I don't know it's it's kind of depressing they don't really have an answer to like what are we just left it orange pool people while sitting on a long haul flights and uh gifting like Satoshi's to family members and hope that they become Bitcoin it's like it's never going to happen you're never going to get the adoption that way. I don't particularly like the fact that institutions own so many Bitcoin but I feel like it's a necessary pathway to mean stream adoption right and um like the into your analogy Sam uh they want to take those roads demolish the paved roads so dirt roads back on right and just like hope you get to the core view it's like uh let's fuck fuck I bet let's start gifting cold cards again right like what are we doing here like I can in some ways I can understand them ship it's because it's kind of contradictory right that you you you sort of grew up with this movement that was anti-institution it was successful you loved it and then the institutions come along so I can understand where they come from but like at some point man you have to be pragmatic you have to realize this thing's got a life of its own it's evolved it's moved on it's growing and just come along for the ride and be happy do you know what I'm saying I just don't get way they're digging trenches like they just don't like new people come on along um it's like I don't know it's um it's kind of depressing when you think about that fundamentalist ideology it's just they don't want change they don't want they don't seem to want growth they're not interested in number go up uh so what's the deal like is it just a I'll give them credit when it comes to the like a point called paper bitcoin for like shady exchanges right like yeah it has happened it's not like it hasn't happened there's a real thing to that so I'll give you that estimation but to me like the reason I got the big coin is like what big coin is I don't give a fuck if the institutions are not right like institutions that make a difference you can see everything on the blockchain like if I couldn't see stuff on the blockchain okay then there would be a level of concern if I had my money on a shady exchange okay maybe there might be a level of concern there but at the end of the day we're all here because it's what it was deflationary I wouldn't say it's us here deflationary now or it's marginally deflationary it's just not inflationary and we can all see and we can all verify it like I don't know why these we gotta go back to British's original rules by bitcoin shut the fuck up and get absolutely wealthy fabulously wealthy get it right come on yeah absolutely fabulous oh British is right there yeah you just did like a sayon's oh my bad sorry we gotta change it by i bit i bit and then get fabulously wealthy right step chef um the argument against like the i understand the paper bitcoin argument right but let's say black rock started on monday morning um giving people pieces of paper that weren't backed by actual bitcoin that they bought what's gonna happen black rock will get wrecked their clients will get wrecked bitcoin carries on right that that's that's the argument they don't want to hear it's like yes we get it yes these institutions can start dealing in paper stuff but that's the whole that's ignoring the whole beauty of of bitcoin and the blockchain that you can't you can't really issue you can with your clients right but you can't with actual bitcoin right so it's just such a flawed argument it's so um it's so dogmatic um it just to go ahead and i think i think british i think morning guys before too he was like a liquidity will drive the narrative and guess what the narrative is now it's bullish it's bullish it's like if are you happy we defeated bit 110 clown world land whatever what do i don't understand is people suddenly being more vocal about quote unquote big bitcoin or like black rock and i bit because that just doesn't i can tell you why that is i can tell you exactly why that is fundamentally against it and you would have been the moment it happened in 2024 and it would be old news by now because it's been happening since 2024 or you just see it for what it is and you recognize like oh shit this thing came out that i thought would maybe fly in the face of some of the fundamental principles of bitcoin and yet when it came out the world's reaction was bullish and it liked it so hey can you guys hear me yeah yeah good morning yeah morning um i can tell you exactly why that is if you want to if you want to have that genuine i mean it's a boring conversation but i can tell you why it suddenly become very very popular to talk about this and that's because until about a week ago there was not an argument for the fact that you know cold custody self-custody cold wallets was better and you know contrary to what a lot of people think and they're mocking this the the use of ibit and etc etc the reality is that i could probably argue against ibit better than anyone that's because i've thought about both things and until you know last week the argument for self custody was stronger and all of a sudden it's not so you're feeling people get dragged in both ways you're feeling you know the self-custody maxi that always had the higher the higher you know stool let's say have now suddenly had the stool pulled out from underneath them and they know people they know real people that have lost their entire net worth in this and they're evaluating whether the use case and the risk case is worth it or not you know and so that's why you're seeing that that that happened it's momentary it will go But the reality is is that, you know, for the average person, this dream of a self-custody life was probably a little bit overstated. I'm not saying that it's not useful. I'm not saying that it's irrelevant. Probably a little bit overstated. Like if you've got an American passport, for example, and you think you're going to run away from taxes anywhere in the world because you've got self-custody Bitcoin, you know, you're going to be in prison, my friend. Like it's not. Literal prison, that's literal, actually. Literal, yeah, I'm not even exaggerating. But, you know, if anyone ever, this is a crazy part. Like I'm getting a lot of hate right now for my message. If anyone ever asks me to argue against Ibit, I can do it better than any argument I've heard. I can argue against Ibit. So, yeah, I mean, that is a good thought process, too. I mean, I feel like back in the day, you kind of could have got away if you got cold swords, you had good op-sec, you know, fully aware. Or, I wanted to ask you specifically. Are you pro-MSTR or anti-MSTR? So, I'm more anti-NOWA days. I mean, it's sad because I used to look up the sailor and now he's kind of become more of a clown with everything. I'm pro, I'm cool with, you know, if you want to just buy, you know, you have a treasury company and you buy, you know, Bitcoin. But I think the concept is stretch the more that I've, you know, seen it and studied it now. You know, because Bitcoin's, you know, it's just a commodity or, you know, it's a crypto currency. It's not something that, you know, produce its interest, there's no dividends. So, it doesn't really make sense in that aspect. I think that micro-strategy will kind of not really, you know, really outperform Bitcoin like it used to. Maybe there'll be some momentum, but I mean, just buying micro-strategy, you know, I feel like that's kind of a foolish idea. But if you want to trade momentum, I'm cool with that, you know. Right, okay. Just wanting understanding based on something you said on a previous base a couple days ago. What did I say? I don't know. You said that you, you, you ridiculed the idea of holding a MSTY. And the only way you can ridicule the idea of holding a MSTY is if you are negative MSTR. So that's why I was kind of curious. I got in here. Yeah, right. If you held MSTR, if you bought MSTR the same day as you bought MSTY, you'd be better off holding MSTY than you are MSTR. That makes sense to you, right? Right, right, right, really? Yes, because MSTY has been, MSTY has been paying out a dividend because it's a yield harvesting product. So if you go look at the peak of MSTR, just pick a day, whatever that peak is, and then look at the trough, measure that discount, right, that we've got right now in MSTR. And then go on trading view and click in fact of a dividends, right? Do the same date on MSTY and you'll see the holding MSTY, you were probably right now like 20% better off. That's crazy. Has your real estate? No, it's not crazy. People would say, I believe you, I believe you. Has your dividend return on MSTY covered your cost basis at this point, British? No, because I got in a bit too late on the MSTY but it's almost there. This is almost there. And by the way, the percentage is not, it's been, it's been state stable around 5%. Now the dollar value has gone down obviously, right? But the actual percentage is state at 5%. They're doing it, as far as I'm concerned for what the product is, they're doing a fantastic job. Just people don't understand it. Yeah, well, I mean, thanks for educating me on it because I didn't even realize that. No problem, I don't know problem. That's why I wanted to have the combo because there's just a lot of stupid people that are called bitcoins. Yeah, I'm one of them in terms of MISTI because damn, that's hard. I would have never thought that because when you look at that chart, you're like, oh my god, you know, it just seems. MISTI is nothing. All MSTY is, is a yield harvesting product on top of MSTY. It's selling cover costs, right? They're selling cover costs. They're basically selling cover costs, right? They do put, they do other stuff too, but they're basically selling cover costs. Now, they made a really interesting, this is the thing that I tried to educate people on last year, but nobody wanted to listen. They made a really interesting change in their perspectives, which basically allows them to also place trades to take advantage of the upside of MSTY. Now, what that allows for is when MSTY has a resurgence moment, like it does every now and then, right? MISTI will capture that upside, where is before it wouldn't? What are they doing for that? By instant, out of the money, like weeps or something? Yeah, yep. That's interesting. And by the way, the head trader who I've met, Scott at Yieldmanks, trades the most volume of options in America, desingle trader. So if you think these guys don't know what the fuck they're doing, like you're utterly retarded. And MSTY, by the way, like, if I sent, I didn't sense that this was going to be this deep of a bear market, got that completely wrong. But if I sensed that we're going into a deep bear market, I'll flip MSTY into their other product called WNTR. That's what I should have done. If I've done that, I'd be massively up on the cap value, too. And WNTR is basically just a reverse of MSTY. But again, a lot of people don't understand these products, right? So they go and misstieze its own individual thing. That's wrong. If MSTY is down, you look at Bitcoin, right? That's how you look at it. Bitcoin's down. MSTY is probably going to be down. That's how MSTY is even closely more tied to the underlying MSTY than that. I mean, British, I just want to tell you, man, I never actually freaking pitched MSTY or bought MSTY or I'd invite on the run-up, I'd invite on the run-down. And personally, man, I think that's the advice you should just, like, if you want to buy MSTY or go buy MSTY, that's the thing, right? If you believe in it, go buy MSTY. If you don't, stay away from MSTY or buy Bitcoin. Who the fuck cares? Well, that's what I've been saying that forever. I pitch MSTY because I understand it. I understood MSTY on the press release of them announcing a Bitcoin strategy because my biggest purchase of MSTY was the first trading day after that strategy. That is how soon I got into MSTY. I've owned it since 2020. So I understand. Right, my job, as far as an X-influencer personality, educate, or whatever, is to help educate on my perspective. Yeah, I got into it early as well because I had IRA money and I've been here since I was a kid. Absolutely. And that was the best time. That's right. Can you imagine? So I've never managed to replicate such a perfect trade since that one, which is I bought long call options on MSTY are the first trading day after announcing their strategy. And look at how many things were completely mispriced in there. Those options didn't have a Bitcoin strategy priced. It didn't have a Bitcoin implied volatility price. It didn't have MSTY are as high leverage on Bitcoin's implied volatility price. That is probably going to be one of my best trades ever. Top five, follow up. It's just crazy. I just bought shares at the time, but obviously we're talking. Well, I mean to be fair about MSTY, obviously even with the dividends still underperformed Bitcoin since it came out. But again, MST is not a proxy to Bitcoin. MSTY is a proxy to MSTY. So you cannot look. And nothing that MSTY does is tied to Bitcoin. It's tied to MSTY and by proxy, it's tied to Bitcoin. So in order to compare MSTY's performance, you've got to compare it to MSTY are not Bitcoin. Like if you own MSTY right now, you're down much more than Bitcoin, right? Like that's fast. Right. Because that's what it is. It is a leveraged product. It is an amplifier on top of Bitcoin to both sides. At some point in the future, Bitcoin will be up 30%. And MSTY will be up 50%. That's what it's supposed to do. That's the value that it has. Because if Bitcoin was up 30%, and MSTY was only up 30%, you'd actually rather hold the Bitcoin. And that's what I've said that in many videos. You want it to amplify in both directions more. Yeah, no, no, 100%, 100%. My fear is that it won't be as good this time around in terms of outperforming. Yeah, you're just wrong. You're just wrong, but you'll see. No, no, no, no. Let me just, we'll see, we'll see, we'll see. We don't know. You're not, you're just wrong. What do we mean? No, we'll see what we don't know. You have another bad asteroid? No, no, I just, I get it. I just want to ask the question about something else. No, I was just saying, I don't think it will outperform Bitcoin by as much. Is it outperforming Bitcoin in the last bull run? Because I don't think the investors may be the stock. because the price of the stock as sailor has said himself is up to the shareholders, is up to the traders essentially, right? Yeah, that's how markets work. When we get above that moving average, what is it this, 200 a, like usually just sell your day to someone. Well, usually every time it's actually reclaimed it and gone above it after a drawdown is generally marks the start of the next goal market. So like would you go up price, would you consider buying like 73? No, I miss right now around 70, the 200 daily, yeah, for this is a different day. It's crawled down to just 70. So it's been just ever the longer Bitcoin just consolidates here, the lower and lower that that MA is going to get and the easier it's going to become to overcome it. Are you going to play that, Evan? Like what would you do the load up on some of it calls? Would you would you consider a Mr. Well, I'm already all in on Bitcoin. I've been pretty much all in on Bitcoin since the momentum shifts have happened basically, you know, since February, since those lows, I mean my average buy is like load up it's 60 essentially. So I'm already all in. It depends how fancy you want to get, bro. I mean, you know, it depends what you want to, what you want to do. I mean, if my, To me, I just feel like we've had so much bad news, Bip gave this and blah blah blah, that like once it kind of reclaimed those levels, I just, I'm with Joe like I just think this is going to be fucking just blast off city and like I'm thinking about buying some Ibit calls or something. Even you guys don't think you guys don't think we might just chop, chop, chop over into the end of the year. Like you actually, but I just wanted to guys just, I just wanted to bring back this subject because I wanted to ask for it. So like my, my view is that obviously we mentioned. So obviously shareholders, how the market works. My view is there's not going to be as bad, crazy as a mania phase on micro strategy where really how it performs Bitcoin as much as it did from 2023 to the end of the year. Yeah. Well, I mean, I'll educate you when we're having with Tesla, then, right? And Tesla, all the investors in Tesla were retail, right? Retail was buying Tesla selling Tesla, trading Tesla, fan Boeing, Orelon, mosque, et cetera, et cetera for years, right? Since IPO. And then in 2019, one day, the Russell 2000 asset managers were like, fuck, we need Tesla, right? And overnight you can start seeing in 2019 when the Tesla share price just started flying because the asset managers got involved. So the problem is is that, and this is the common mistake on X and social media, is that you're sitting here listening to people, we're talking with, you know, a reasonable amount of authority. And they're just, they don't move enough capital for the opinion to matter. And I'm talking about myself too. Like if you realize most of the things that I say, I'm trying to talk about what real capital is doing, nor what I'm doing most of the time, right? And so what you'll find is that all of these people that you're listening to, including myself, are completely irrelevant when it comes to the actual capital that can move the markets. And the guys that are watching, what's, the guys that are moving capital are watching how quickly STRC is reverting back to its power. They're watching that. The guys that are watching are watching on how MSTR deals with right now, it's second, you know, big massive drawdown. They're watching that. And the conversations I've had, you know, I can't say with who, but the conversations I've had you can take your imagination as big. The main concern with STRC was, what if there's a left-to-risk? Well, that left-to-risk showed up and it was down 70% off par, I mean, 30% off par, right? And so now they've gotten to see Sailor's response and what have they seen? Sailor's executed exactly like a good business operator should. They've taken their capital and they bought back the shares to bring it back to par. They're prioritizing the shareholders of STRC. Institutional capital loves that, right? And that's the thing that retail just doesn't seem to want to understand, which is that, you know, Bitcoiners are irrelevant. Like, we had $110 million, right? And it didn't go down. It was up. So you actually failed to go down. British, British. This market is setting up the fucking explode. I don't know how you guys don't see it. It's like, you know, fucking rip, rip, rip. I mean, it's just unbelievable. See, Ash, right? This is what I'm saying. I agree with you that it's going to set up to explode, but it might take a while. You know, it's not going to happen. It's irrelevant. It's just a bit of a joke. Three months, four months, it doesn't really matter. Yeah. Hey, British. You know what the wonderfully poetic part of all of this is? The people who ran from cold care, not the people who lost coins, but the other people who ran out of self-costody because of this scare last week. They got back into like that medium world between Bitcoin and Fiat and they were like, well, no, what do I buy? Like, if I'm not taking self-costody, what do I do? And they're like, I'll buy some MSTR at $89. Yep. You're talking about the, yeah. You're talking about your best trade. Like the people who come into Bitcoin in the past three years because the tax isn't a problem, right? Because you don't have those huge gains. You're probably up, oh, I don't know, 25%, 30%. If you're here in the last three years. So you don't have the tax to worry about, right? And you took your capital out. You looked for somewhere to put it. And lo and behold, here's MSTR at $89. It's like poetic. It couldn't work that better. The real thing with Evan, so the real, the very value of MSTR is its implied volatility against Bitcoin's implied volatility. That's what generates the value, right? And I've said this over and over again since the beginning, if MSTR ever matches the implied volatility of Bitcoin, I want to rather hold the Bitcoin. As long as it's higher, I want to rather hold the MSTR in either direction, by the way. That's how this works. Yeah, it makes sense. Yeah. I mean, there's a few different things. Would you say, British, that you would rather hold MSTR now than Bitcoin? 100%. That is that a fair statement. Yeah, but that doesn't mean that one. Just get to one MSTR. Just get to one. One MSTR and one IBIT Bitcoin AI guy. And one iron. Three steps, three steps, British. Three steps. Step one, step one, step one, you buy MSTR. Who's ironing that? Step two, you shut the fuck up. $41. Step three. He's just going to let that be something. He's like, he's like, he's like, got Tourette. So he's just going to let him go off once he gets started and until he runs out of energy. Well, I got 5.8 GIGGLY. That's British. I got 5.8 GIGGLY. Not in your pants. I'm not going to run out of power anytime soon. No energy. You don't have to worry about that, my friend. Anyway, Johnny, what were you saying? I was just saying, Bitcoin AI guy's a good guy, you know. I agree. I agree. He's a good guy though. He's a good guy though. Aren't we all though? I'm retard maxing. Retard maxing. Retard maxing. Yeah, but anyway, that's how you win in this market. I want to hold MSTR more. Why? Because it went down more than Bitcoin. So if I still believe in Bitcoin, then at this point, and I'm holding long-term, I want to hold MSTR. Yeah. Hey, hey, British, how pissed would you be if Bitcoin ripped in Michael's Heller ATM, the literal fuck out of MSTR to retire his debt? How pissed off would you be? I mean, it depends if I'm, I would be annoyed. Yeah, for sure. But if I was holding for the absolute long-term, right, then that might actually be a good idea. But of course, short-term, I want price appreciation, of course. But I think Michael's Heller is also learned because, again, you've got to listen to his communications, right? He's also learned that the share price of the underlying stock is actually as important as the amount of Bitcoin accumulation. I think that was a learning process that they went through. But you, I mean, have you not listened to some of the stuff? Is there a case, British? Is there a case? Do you see a case where Bitcoin rips and MSTR just like stays stagnant? At this point, no. If that happened, what would happen is the implied volatility of MSTR would collapse, right? And that would make Bitcoin much more of a better hold. I think the implied volatility would be there. That's, that's a good explanation, actually. The, the, British, I think you would agree. The implied volatility would go get less over time, right? It could be a good point. It depends, yeah. It depends. Michael Sela a couple of years ago kept saying the word interesting, right? And I was like, okay, what the fuck does that mean? Does it keep saying it? When you're trying to keep a stock interesting, the best proxy for that is implied volatility. So it's like, he's got to do what he can to keep the implied volatility of the stock up. So I mean, there's, that's his objectives. Yeah, I mean, there's areas where I mean, 20, obviously, MicroShredg, Pete out in the end of 2024 and then Bitcoin, Pete out of your later. So if you're looking at 2025, if MicroShredg overall, it's going to be a bit more than 20, 20, 25. So there's been hiccups. I mean, I, you know, I think it's still going to do well. It's probably theoretically, yes, it should outperform the implied volatility. It's the same, it's the same. It should outperform Bitcoin in all likelihood over the next few years. Now, I don't think it's going to be as, as much as it did, you know, last time around where you got, I don't know, what was that, 20 years ago? MicroShredg had its highest close on the week of the 14th of July 2025. Wait a second. And Bitcoin had its highest close on the week of the 6th of October 2025. So three months. It was three. I thought, why do I think it was November of 2024, hold up? Because what you're looking at is a WIC high. Oh, well, okay, okay, so we can't count that. Okay. I mean, I don't count that. I love that close highs. I don't count WIC highs. Okay, okay, fair enough. Still was before, still did peak out before Bitcoin, but it was the same thing happened in 2021 at peak doesn't march. And then, yeah, I mean, it is the interesting. I'll agree with Taylor on that aspect. But, you know, at the same time, we are entering a speculative phase in this market. Like, I don't know if you can feel it, but it's starting to, everything's just kind of starting to feel, you know, speculative, which is why, like, everything's about to pump, you know, and you might find yourself in a situation where you're about to get your face ripped off for shorting iron, dude, you're returning. I'm definitely going to be. Why the fuck are you still short iron? You retard. I've heard you last week. I want you to wait for that. I'm trying to get to major blockhand over this and it's devastating. So I might lose about 15 to 16% on that short trade. Hey, British, you remember something? British, did you ever see the movie, The Village, M Night, Shem Malam? Is that his name, The Director, The Village? You ever see it? I don't know. I don't think so. I've seen that. So there's a group of, that's the Bitcoin fundamentalists, right? They're so conservative that they take their kids the way to the woods. They say the world, something terrible has happened in the world. There's a monster in the woods, you can't go in there. There's nothing beyond the woods. And then one day, one of the kids sees an airplane fly over and goes, hey, dad, looks like the world is getting unjust fine. That's kind of like the Bitcoin fundamentalists. I'm going to watch them right now, Sam. Yeah, it's good, maybe. Yeah, maybe. I mean, look, the Bitcoiners have kind of proved there, you know, everything that anyone who was talking about being pro institution, so to say, has been proven right in the last, you know, week or so. And the reality is, like, it doesn't even, I'm wondering why I'm even having the conversation at this point, because clearly it's irrelevant. Like, I'm losing subscribers, I'm losing views, I'm losing followers, I'm losing all of that by talking about this. And it's pretty sure wrong. You've been right for five years. I know. No, you've been wrong. You've been right, if you said win institutions for five years. Yes, but Mike, you said you're wrong. The old Bitcoiners, the rest of the crypto complexes because of the ETF and the institutionalization of the asset. That's the only reason there's been no bull market in crypto periods since 2021, but Bitcoin was still flat and almost everything else is down and never made a new all time high because they didn't have an ETF. There was no momentum. There was no institutionalization. The whole win institutions meme has ended up being completely correct. The only thing that I would disagree with British on in this recent conversation is the only reason why volatility mattered for MSTR is because they were primarily using convertible notes as the structure to buy more Bitcoin. In that structure, the institutions buy the convertible note. They short the stock to isolate the optionality embedded in the convertible note. You need high optionality in order to basically get this really low pricing in terms of the cost of capital to buy Bitcoin. That's all gone now. British is talking about a paradigm that doesn't exist. There's no convertible note opportunity from MSTR in the short term. Michael Saillers doing quite the opposite. He's trying to remove the convertible notes from the bottom. He's paying them off early, which is why he precipitated this panic period. It was only six weeks ago. By the way, I was in this space with a bunch of Maxis and idiots calling for the immediate decline in eminent collapse of the MSTR and STRC. I literally said when STRC was like 70, I'm like, they're just going to arbit right back to 100 because there's no mechanism to dissolve the company. There's no mechanism to crush it. They're going to do whatever they take to get it back to 100. It's going back to 100. It's one of the easiest calls I've ever made in my entire career. It was so funny that in the space, this is why nobody makes money in markets. Like 90% of people would have agreed at that moment that MSTR was fucked. And that's exactly the hunting Fred. Including Fred. I know. Fred was arguing with me about MSTR at the absolute low incentive when he was arguing with me. It's a bad idea to argue with me at inflection points. Unless you actually know more and nobody does and so okay genuine question though my genuine question Um, that 95 dollars is there the one point journey Okay, the point I want to make is Mike if the implied if you're right and the implied volatility of MSTR proceeds to collapse. I will convert my MSTR position back to big one I think it's just if there's no upside or downside advantage in even in momentary periods of bullishness There's no value in holding I think I'm making a different argument the nuance here is You're saying implied volatility is the lead. It's the most important thing and I'm saying it's a derivative of just the path of price Meaning when that's done I understand the price is a bit quite disagree with what you think Yeah, that's fine. It's fine. It's really all you all you want But I'm just telling you from an institutional perspective Nobody cares about volatility in MSTR right now because nobody needs to Nobody's buying convertible notes in MSTR. The people are holding them They're either up or down and and Michael Taylor wants to buy them out. That's the only dynamic The only thing that's good. I get the only thing I'm gonna change that Is when the underlying volatility of the underlying asset changes And the only time that's gonna happen is when it starts to go up again Like that's what I'm so nobody literally nobody in the world outside of a couple of charts quigulars Like my friend my good friend Ben Cohen like nobody cares whether bitcoins going to 45 or 50 or 50 I'm just to be clear for the record because Ben is listening to this and if he isn't listening now He'll be listening to the recording. I like Ben Cohen He apologized for some obnoxious commentary he made where he was wrong in 2023 So I forgive him for that and we have moved on But all that said nobody but Ben Cohen cares about whether Bitcoin goes to 55 or 50 or 45 in the institutional community They're just trying to figure out when is they gonna go to 200 to 300 thousand and at some point between here and 200 and 300 thousand The volatility of Bitcoin comes back alive again And every derivative asset that is levered off the price of Bitcoin its volatility characteristic will change It's not fucking not science like it's not the volatility that's leading We just need price action again that makes people happy That makes people excited that causes parabolic Moves that causes reflexivity and convexity where there's a reason to buy call options on Bitcoin Forget about ms.cr for second if there's no reason to buy call options in ibit There's no reason to buy call options in ms.cr. It's that simple But it's the tail wagging the dog like you need Bitcoin just as the commodity to start to behave Reflexively again and when it does all of these conversations I think we're literally saying the same thing from two sides of the dog You said you if the implied volatility of ms.cr goes down you trade every Bitcoin I remember talking on spaces I'm not trying to talk like I'm talking to someone who understands Institutional investing right? I'm talking to the Bitcoin That's what I do for a living so I so when I do talk about it I try I know I get it as person saying I'm not It's possible and I'm just saying nobody cares nobody in the institutional community cares about ms.cr as well Nobody gives a 20 20 what's going on? That was a 2024 and maybe halfway through 2025 story now that's over and and Michael Staler if you asked him privately He said I'm so fucking jealous of the drive guys because they got to start with a small balance sheet with no convertibles on it Nobody wants to touch convertibles right now because everybody's afraid of what you can how much you compress your equity Because you've got all this heavy heaviness from the short selling that's done by the convertible note Fires who want to be delta neutral that's it that's that's it and say I just idea to do anything that The anything that it would be a really smart idea to Do exactly what are you doing then which is get rid of those convertibles get that pressure off the balance sheet Yes, but he he didn't need to be so aggressive like basically he's signal okay All right, so good to go to the market He said one the market in like one day that he was worried about his capital structure Whereas if he had been a little bit more gradual he never would have been sending He was sending a massive distress signal So the market in the market responded by giving him distress back and he said oh, I don't really like that I don't like these by raises like this these match shooter people these kids with masks and guns They show up and they start shooting people and they they're really enjoying themselves until somebody starts shooting back at them And then they don't like it as much anymore and then eventually they either get shot and die or they take their own life Right and so like it's fun and games until you're getting shot back at and so yeah It's cool. I used AI to design my preferred product and this is fun. I'm an ab billionaire and I've got three odds And all the stuff it's not fun when you get fired back and the institutions are like fuck you You didn't tell us you were gonna do this and we don't like what you're doing So now we're gonna short your not just your stock. We're gonna short your preferred We're gonna start selling everything and retails is gonna of course pile on because retail always gets the message last Which is why I joined these spaces right at the end of the media because that's what it's the most fun You're literally watching the people who know the least who don't know what the fuck they're talking about piling on at the end Just before the reversal. That's why these spaces are so valuable to me by the way because they're the best signals Every single year two three times a year. I just come in here and I listen and I go oh my god This is gonna be a huge reversal the dumbest people with the least experience and markets are claiming there's gonna be an imminent collapse It's over and over. I've literally walked this happen 17 times over the last three and a half years I've made literally like a hundred and fifty million dollars just doing the opposite in that period of time I'm gonna keep doing it. So I'm waiting for that next moment. There's no there's no mania right now STRC is headed to a hundred S A T A's back at a hundred Both drive an MSTR will go up when Bitcoin's heading back towards a hundred. It's very obvious. The only question is how Much more than Bitcoin do they manage to go up over the next run? So if Bitcoin goes to 300,000 the simple question is what is MSTR's price and what is ASS keys price? Really simple right you're gonna get your 13% in falling on S A T A and you're 11.5% in falling on SCRC As the price of Bitcoin approaches a hundred than a hundred and twenty hundred fifty The cost of capital will fall and so they'll be able to lower the yield and still keep the price between a hundred and one oh five So those products are sort of irrelevant unless you care about a 10% return or a 12% return The question though on the equity side is if Bitcoin's up a hundred percent from here do you still get 200 percent in MSTR? Do you get 300 percent in strife or or is it mixed? I might do I have it mixed and actually MSTR still outperforms struts those are the only questions that Matter all the other questions that people are asking here are short term and kind of dumb to be honest They're not actually gonna cause anyone to make any significant money But if you're gonna answer for me one simple question when Bitcoin goes to 200,000 or 300,000 and which one of these Equities performs the best and then that's interesting Right because if Bitcoin goes to 300,000 from here, which I think it will Right, that's approximately a little less than a 5x is strive at 20x is strive at 10x is there three x Is the mSTR 3x is there to 20? I don't know right like you have to figure that out This is where all the alpha comes from But if you're not asking that question and you're instead asking really dumb questions like is that CRC gonna collapse and go to zero Like people were asking a month ago then you deserve to be poor And candidly most people end up poor because they ask entirely the wrong questions at exactly the wrong times Over and over again in markets and there's nothing apparently people like me can do to educate them I do my best. I try to warn people in the moment I say guys you're being extremely emotional and extremely irrational S-C's not going to zero and Michael say they can't be liquidated and I can say it I can scream and I can yell it and people will still Like you were warned I look all caps buddy you were warned and once again here we are and S-C's at 95 heading back to happen So it'll happen again guys I look I'm gonna warn you in advance Sometime the next year The same people will be back in here Talking about the end of the world it'll be dark side again and his cronies and they'll tell you the world ending and that people are gonna run out of silver We're gonna run out of fertilizer. We're gonna out of water the cows are gonna start farting Caused all the oxygen to be drained out of the atmosphere and we're all gonna die and MFTR is going to zero and Michael sailors are fraud and It's gonna have to sell his yachts and I'm telling you right now like when that happens That's when you buy I was gonna warn you in advance I literally predicted like some some point next year when dark side is in here That's exactly what he's gonna say and that's when you buy and if you literally just do that one thing You Also can make hundreds of millions of dollars in the market Nothing it's easy, but you have to train yourself to wait for those moments where the biggest idiots come in here And spout off about things they don't understand and then you just do the opposite I've look I can say this over and over again saying it again But that's how you make a lot of money in the market and there's really no better way than that Well, Mike. I think a lot of it comes down to just who you're listening to like when I listen to people and take it seriously It's you and people like Dave Weisberger as well. I've been in these spaces for Man over a year talking about MSTR every time the subject comes up And people coming here saying oh bitcoin per share and making a me-motivant and it doesn't matter It's like okay. Well Ever since MSTR has come off of its what four hundred five hundred dollar high They've added like 50% more bitcoin and all it takes is for animal spear It's in bitcoin volatility to return for that stock to re-rate And it's gonna matter the bitcoin per share once that multiple comes back you know two three times book It's like good luck, buddy. You want to fade sailor you want to fade and get upset about the institutional adoption of bitcoin But that's what it's going to take for people to get like million dollar bitcoin right? I look at I think it's really simple You either think bitcoin is a good asset to hold for the next 10 or 15 years or longer or you don't And if you don't there's no fucking reason to be in here There's no fucking reason to even have these conversations because you're wasting your time like all of this shit Gonna fail If bitcoin is a failure right so if bitcoin's eventually gonna end up at a thousand or five thousand or Collapse because of some idiots you want to run an alternative's work because they want to remove Udi's