AI Summary
**总体概述**
两位对话者围绕北马其顿与希腊的历史认同展开激烈争论,一方坚称马其顿人与希腊人是不同民族并指责对方“否认马其顿根源”,另一方则质疑其历史依据。
**要点**
- 对话者表示自己“被Veritas触发了”,虽尊敬对方但认为其在历史问题上错误颇多,尤其是指责对方把马其顿人称作希腊人。
- 他引用在Evan Krieger空间里遇到马其顿朋友的经历,借此质疑马其顿是否属于希腊,并强调自己与对方立场相反。
- 他用“Veritas”一词做词源争论,声称其源自马其顿语而非拉丁语,并称拉丁语源自希腊语或腓尼基语,情绪激动、语带攻击(“you idiot”)。
- 关于亚历山大和腓力二世,他主张亚历山大讲的是马其顿语,通用希腊语(Koine)只是为帝国沟通而创造;对方则指出腓力二世给予希腊城邦自治、并未自封希腊国王。
- 他称马其顿人早于希腊人便与波斯人通商,并贬称“希腊人是无耻的民族”,还提到腓力不许希腊人收葬阵亡者。
- 他称马其顿在1913年(提及《布加勒斯特条约》一类协议)被“碾碎”、从地图上抹去,类比巴勒斯坦,并指责希腊“否认我们的根源”。
- 关于斯拉夫人,他否认曾发生马其顿人与斯拉夫人的战争,称斯拉夫部落是因马其顿是“世界焦点”而被允许迁入并通婚融合。
**结论**
这场争论情绪化且史实混杂,建议双方先厘清“马其顿”在不同历史时期(古代王国、现代民族国家、地区)的含义,再基于可核查的史料讨论民族认同问题。
Transcript
But his very top
Other than the shape of the earth. Yeah, yeah seriously. That's all he's got right. It's all better. That's got right
A lot a lot okay
Well, like
You're very triggered by Veritas right now
Yeah, I am a little bit triggered because I love him I respect him, but he's got a lot of things
The white national
He's a builder. He thought he was a builder what's wrong with being a builder?
But he thought he was a builder, but he's not a built-in
What do you mean he's not a builder?
No, because he's got a lot of things wrong first that as he got like for example if you look at the the history card
He look at the the scale of the history he called
Macedonians Greeks and he doesn't
That's a bad thing
I
Was in Evan Krieger's space a couple of days ago who isn't a Greek and
One of his Macedonian friends was was there and I made a joke because I was
Reminded of you when he when he said that that he is a Macedonian and I asked is
Macedonia even we need to stop
I mean it's a nice
Not
When I even questioned Macedonia to be Greece
So yeah, you have a very
Opposing view there to no Greek Veritas Veritas
Do you understand what even you do you understand what your name means Veritas?
You don't even know the origin
Veritas right there
Verra Verra that's the whatever you put on the end of it is your business, but Verra
Verra
Is a Macedonian quote
Verra there remains one that comes from the source in
Macedonia you don't even know that
Damn, you know that Latin is derived
Ashley from Greek right from
Venetian you understand Phoenician from Phoenician you idiot
Are you fucking drunk dude?
Yeah, you definitely sound in you're fucking in talk well, well, there's a come from there's a come from Greek or there's a come from Phoenician
Ask answer that there are that
Do you think that just because a language shares an alphabet it is the same language route?
Well, that's why they're crucifying Macedonia is because we you know
Alexander spoke coin it correct is that correct?
coin
Probably correct. Yeah, I think yeah, yeah, he was a Macedonian so I'm not sure if he also spoke
Macedonian or whatever
The reason why coin here was was created was so we could at least communicate amongst
The Empire Alexander's empire you remember Alexander you remember Philip of Macedon the one
You know Philip of Macedon the one that the one that slogged that the bash the shitter those fucking Arabs
They were living down there were nothing grows nothing grew there bro
Didn't do much against the
He did a lot against the Greeks he fucking let him
Yeah, he didn't he didn't even want him to bury their dead
He didn't let him bury their dead after the damage they caused
In Macedon in Macedon that's not quite true. Oh well explain. Please tell me how it's not true
Philip wanted to be accepted by the Greek city states
So they he granted them full autonomy and he didn't declare himself king of Greece. He just declared himself like the
head of the
This is this is where you go wrong you in the end. I will I will interrupt you because we were doing business
The mess of ends were doing business with the Persians long before the Greeks had anything
We were doing business with the Greeks are rather the Persians long before we're talking Alexander the first
Okay, I mean us as well. I mean us. That's my surname bro
Right, so we were doing business with the Greeks are the Persians a long time before the Greeks got into the picture
Yeah, we let the Persians in
You know had to fix them up
Because I will
The Greeks are a scandalous kind of people man
Can you show me Macedonia on on the map?
What do you mean like it was there to is it still a country?
No, it's reduced to nothing. It's like Palestine worse
Listen
1913
1913 was when Macedonia got
trampled on okay
disintegrated off the map the Treaty of the side or something like that
that's when Macedon got
smashed okay, and the Greeks used the like a user slabs
What you think that if there was an Islamic invasion the Greeks would be immune to it
this people are denying our very root and
I cannot stand for that there it does
these what did the did the Greeks?
Pick up all the Macedonians and place them in their own land
You understand how loon it's kind of like I have to be crazy to understand it because what did the Slavs
Interbreed yes, of course there was an influx of
Slavic tribes coming into Macedonia there was no war if you can if you can
Give me a date when the war happened between Macedonians and Slavs well then
I'd be I'd be a cool there
But you got no there's no date you understand we let them in because Macedonia was the
Focus of the world
Way brought that up well because you are saying that Greeks and Macedonians are the same thing. It's not true
I never said it's
So now you guys can be good friends again now Macdown you never said that so
Okay, I could be wrong, but I'm just saying like there's a difference between Greeks and Macedonians
We don't even look to say look at Alexander the great look at Philip of Macedon that it look Greek
You look at the Greeks statues look at the great people that it looked like us. I've seen very
Different Greek statues depending on on on the
On the class, I would say when you look at most nobility they look like the
Finny the
The
fridgians and
very like the freeghence the freeghence
European and then you had a couple of
statues
That look like that
That's
My nose is still the same and if I if you put my picture on
If you could if you could put my face
Until Alexander space it'd be exactly the same same chin same nose everything
Good for you. I guess. Well, where's the where's the Greeks?
They did not Greeks because we never wanted to be Greek. We didn't want to be anything what we wanted to do
Alexander's mission was to unite the world
You know to get along you have any you have any fucking tribes how many how many
Solistic tribes that we freed on our way on our mission and they put it down as a conquest
It was a conquest wasn't a conquest. It was a quest
It was a quest to free the world
I think you're your child needs you
Not to be angry
No, it's okay
At least you know what shape of the the earth is that's all that's all I give you man the rest
I know that you're on the Greeks side you might have to go back to Libya or somewhere. I don't know
I'm not on on a Greek side or a Roman side or whatever
I'm on the I'm on the side of Germany
Veritas Veritas can you can you answer me why when when the when the right it took four battles to get into mass
Into Macedonia four battles Roman full-scale battles with the assistance of Dardanian tribes
Illyrian tribes to get into Macedon can you explain to me
Veritas
You know why why why were the Macedonians
Tax-free after that battle no Roman tax because the Romans were ruling the world then
Why when the Macedonians were broke
No, because they respected us
Just no tax there's no tax for Macedonians once the once the Romans took over because they knew
The backbone and they knew the Macedonian people the most giving people on in Europe
Evropa
So the Romans were just feeling like they were in a good mood and were being nice that day
No, that was just that was just you know what the you know when the Romans come into Macedonia it took full
four-scale battles Philip the fifth
Philip the fifth we've had a lot of Phillips right four-scale battles
With the Falons and I know whether when I went to the to the actual place where it took where the battle took place
you know and
A lot of Macedonian kings like the
You know the monarchy they they went to Rome
so
When the when the when the Italians
The new Italians the the Romans came in they said no tax for the Macedonians
That's how much respect no Macedonians was in servitude or anything
May and because of our nature they knew these guys are the fucking glorious people
They came in that's why what do you think Paul come to come to mass got somebody got a message
From from Paul to come to Macedonia
This is the reason why Europe is ruined guys because he's done respect to anything
He's done respect the mother the nature
Europe is the way
And you and you know
want too many beers and
might be
better of taking care of your children and grabbing
History book so yes the Romans text the Macedonians heavily after conquering them in fact the wealth
Extracted from Macedonia was so immense that it changed Roman society forever
The taxation of Macedonia happened in two distinct phases as Rome tightened its grip on the region
First the divided Klein republics 168 BC to 148 BC that was right after
Rome conquered or a defeated
Macedonia in the Battle of Pyrrna right so after a Rome defeated King Pyrrciaus at the Battle of Pyrrna in 168 BC the Roman Senate did not immediately annex
Macedonia as a province instead they dissolved the monarchy and split the territory into
For separate self-governing Klein republics the tribute Rome forced these republics to pay an annual tribute
directly to the Roman treasury
They quote unquote in discount to prevent immediate rebellion and went over the lobe group population
The Romans set this tribute to 100 talents exactly half of what the Macedonians had previously paid to their own
King's
Despite the 50% text reduction the Roman simultaneously shut down Macedonia's lucrative gold and silver mines and then trade between the four republics
Without these primary sources of income the Macedonians deeply struggled to pay even the reduced tribute
Yeah, you could read that out of the book any day
That it does
You can read that every day
There was an article from
Why why was it hang on hang on I'm speaking there it does I love you bro
Can I can I say something hey kind of you you're not giving of a loving wipes here to be honest
Well, I got to speak the truth there it does
There it does why did you install a German king
In Greece why
Because Germans are better and ruling
Well, you know like why what why wasn't a great king installed
the last
greater
Emperor or ruler in Greece was Alexander
When Alexander was that's not a that's not a great that's a Macedonian yeah, yeah, I mean
That's a Macedonian close enough right?
Ah close in no, it's not close enough
close I would see Macedon is
What is it what comes close to the Greeks right
The Greeks are a mismatch
What are Macedonians then
They're they're the fucking what do you okay better does how come there's only two
peoples
In Europe that play the back, but
Macedonian and the Scotty why tell me why I'm not sure you like
Sucking dick out of what I'm not sure
Irish paleo bagpipe but that's