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They are illegal, they're un-American, and they're only happening because the regime
has failed the country and has no good ideas and has to cheat. So that is my disclaimer
It's not in jeans, not Michaels, not anyone else, but I had to get it out there because
This is that kind of a space. So
Having said that we're not gonna dwell on that today
We're gonna have a great conversation with a great person who I'm proud to call a former colleague at UC Irvine
and
Somebody who I love his writing his commentary very lucky to have him
His Michael Denon he is the vice provost for teaching and learning and the Dean of undergraduate education at my former
Place of work the University of California Irvine and
Possibly more relevant to this discussion a longtime contributor to the TV series ancient aliens
Who brought us the hair that we all have in the film that Eugene made. Thank you for the film Eugene
Michael brings material science complex systems and physics of the possible perspectives
He has described himself as a friendly skeptic
finds the idea of life elsewhere highly plausible on
Cosmological time scales, but may or may not be convinced that visitors have reached Earth. We will certainly ask him
He just described himself as a physicist. I would say that's the minimum
Qualification because of everything else I just read so welcome Michael. Thank you for joining us
Great to be here. I found the unmute
Excellent
Yeah, no, and I appreciate the
broader definition physicist would be my working title, but yeah
It's fun to do a lot more and think about a lot more other stuff
And before we get into the meat of things Michael how did you
How did you make the acquaintance of ancient aliens and and what is your participation there been like over the years?
It's been great. It's
Excuse me. It's an interesting
Story with it's kind of what something I tell our students a lot you never know what you're gonna get to do in life
So always be open to surprises
Many many years ago I was asked by some students to do
An event for them when we watched the original Superman movie Christopher Reeves and talked about the science of it a lot of fun
They gave me a book that they had found on science of superheroes
That I then turned into a freshman seminar which here at UC Irvine is a one-unit course
That actually led to the Attorney
Register science reporter finding the course and doing an article on it
Which led to the LA Times science picking it up?
Which led to Prometheus productions
Many years later they were doing a science of Superman for when Superman was rebooted on
National Geographic and
They they were looking for you know
Physicists to talk about it. They saw my course they interviewed me
They actually liked what I had to say so I got to do the interview
It turned out I
Shockingly have the talent to talk about science and short sound bites who would have known
Which is which is a very rare and valuable thing it is a rare and valuable thing I discovered and
So I've been working with Prometheus on a lot of things ever since then and when they decided to do
Anson aliens
They thought of me and I was more than happy to be one of the science skeptics on it. That was a lot of fun
And I've just stuck with it. That's why I described myself as the last remaining
Friendly skeptic on ancient aliens
So the rest are not friendly or not skeptics. I'm not there anymore
That's cool. I'm sure that they a lot of people have learned a lot from you and it's interesting
Michael I'm barely old enough to have
Seen the original Star Trek when it aired in the 60s. I didn't actually
But my brother was a huge fan and so he kind of forced me to watch all the reruns and I've been it been a trekky
I guess since since those days and it is kind of remarkable how much of the technology
That they imagined on that show has become in some ways real and also how many
Astronauts and physicists and astrophysicists and inventors say that they were inspired by that TV show
I will you answer for me. I have very many fond memories of watching the reruns with my dad
That's it was one of his favorite shows and I would and I love watching it and I'm a huge science fiction reader
You know obviously I was the perfect age of 11 when the first Star Wars came out
so
And to your point the only thing we haven't invented yet as far as I can tell is warp drive and I haven't given up hope
um and and lightsabers
so
And that's I know that's not Star Trek everyone don't start getting angry comments
No team jerseys in here guys come on. Yeah
But I've always felt and it's one of the things I like doing and sort of talking and teaching and when I teach physics
you know
human imagination
is often imagining around things that are the possible
and
So it's not surprising how much of science fiction we eventually make real
Well just on the I don't want to spend too much time with this but just on the lightsaber point
It seems to me that the the way that the
All the the modern militaries are going in directed energy weapons now
Lightsaber seems plausible, but why like why would you build a weapon that you have to be three feet away to use?
Well, you know, it's an interesting thing and that's kind of one of the things I find fun about Star Wars is
It is a world
Where the main weapons are I mean a lot of people think of them in those lasers. They're clearly not lasers. They're clearly plasma energy weapons
Um, which means there's charge particles of magnetic fields associated with it. So if you are fast enough
um a lightsaber is actually
Very good at what you see them do the most which is deflect blasters um and so
It's not totally inconceivable in a world of Star Wars where the weapons are of a certain type
That the lightsaber would become the personal weapon of choice
For close combat if you haven't already been wiped out
Perfect answer. Well not only for close combat, but also just for defense from the people who are shooting at you for individual combat
Right like yeah, if you're gonna get hit by a major planet destroyed weapon the lightsaber doesn't help you
I don't know it just reminds me of the scene in Indiana Jones where the the the guy pulls out very
ostentatiously the sword and then Harrison for shoots him from 20 feet away
Well see see Brian the thing you're missing in that is he's he did not pull out a sword that deflects bullets
Fair enough, you know, that's right. That's a
Deflux blasters so
That's right. Well listen, I have a million questions
But I wanted to further my co's Eugene because I've already asked a few of you gene if you want oh wait
None and all before we do that. I have to ask
And most people in here will get this because they've listened to us for a while
um
One of the great moments of my later professional life was getting to me uh Edward James almost
on a project and and my wife
begged me not to fanboy out about Battlestar Galactic but I couldn't help it and um
I
tend to think that their hypothesis of the interaction between
Quote and quote aliens and humans is one of the most compelling I've ever seen but uh
What do you think of not the 1970s Lauren green robot dog Battlestar Galactic about the 21st century one?
You know, I have to this embarrassing to admit. I did not watch enough of it as I should have
It it came out at a time where I was too busy with other things
um, but I even like the original one a lot for the um
Um the the human robot
Challenge and interaction
Which is where I thought you were going with it Brian not the human alien because of everyone's fear of AI taking over
um
So yeah, I
We're not on video, but I put alien and air quotes
I don't want to spoil the plot of the show for people who haven't watched it
But but not in other words the the evolution of humanity and the idea of ancient civilizations
No, I
Little I watched and even just extrapolating from the original. I found that
Um very well done and very clever
It was funny in the original because I watched that one also with my dad and he had the
The the one comment he had about that from just trying to make a movie out of it
It's much harder or I mean a TV show it's much harder to continually come up with stories
Where you have the same basic bad guys
Where yeah track had from a entertainment point of view
Built into it the infinite number of bad guy option
Yeah, that's right. That's a good point. Yeah interesting uh Eugene what what what what what would you like to talk about like
I um so
I've always been interested in I don't know
The timelines are anywhere close to what these guys are saying or whatever, but my dad
Was turtle mountain band and chipwa native american and
One of our big things was um going around and uh discovering
different markings and whatever
And as I follow this our archaeology this timeline keeps expanding out right of what they're finding here
You know it started out you know we'd only been here a while
um
But I also am noticing that that timeline is
Getting uh longer around the world in some of these discoveries
um
Like the fall and rise of civilizations um like do you
Do you actually see a pattern of that or
And I mean like a big rise in the civilization and then a toll slam down of it
You know that's a great ironically. It's a question. I've been thinking more about lately
You know, it's not it's clothing not my area of expertise, you know um
but
It's
You know we focus a lot
At least I did so growing up in new England like I did you know there was a lot of focus on
You know you start with the Tigris and Euphrates and
Civilizations there and the Nioh and the Mediterranean
At some point in your education you look at um the civilizations in India and China and the rivers they evolved on
and and we think a lot about these sort of agricultural empires
and
lately, you know, I've been visiting
Mexico more and thinking about our hemisphere and what I realized is
In the sort of North America South America
You you probably had a lot of these rise and falls of civilization that aren't in areas like deserts where everything got preserved
um, you know the conditions for saving
um the artifacts of civilization
Or just not as I don't know robust here
Is that I don't know that's right way think about it. So to your point Eugene, I think humans have probably
had more civilizations rise and fall than we think of
Because it's hard to maintain it um and
You know
The Odyssey just came out and there's the whole Bronze Age collapse
um
We see the rise and falls in in in in our sort of middle eastern evolution of humans
I don't think we emphasize the rise and falls much when it was taught to me as a kid
It was sort of like we had civilization continuously, but I think you had these empires and large structures falling apart more often than we
We really think about because I just think it's hard to do anything at scale and to be honest, I think
Again, you know not to get this is not meant as a political statement though Brian you did open with one
I think part of the trouble we're facing the United States right now is we are really really big
And no one
You know to have as diverse and bigger country as we are
I don't think anyone's figured out how to do that for a really long time
So I'm hoping we get through this one and figure it out
But I think it's not surprising that we're struggling the way we are right now
Well, we have uh, we sorry, Eugene's real quick. We have um what another
I'm math is not my thing. Uh, I don't know 10 months or so before we will become the longest surviving democracy in world history
And and I think we can make it to that but also I think we should not take our democracy for granted as though
It's just automatically going to last forever and that's maybe for another space
But to kind of go further a little bit in what you and Eugene were talking about I don't have this in front of me somebody can find it um
Uh, one of our friends in the space can find it
But I did read recently that there's a group of I want to say they're at JPL in Locke Nialda
But I couldn't be wrong, but there's a group of scientists
who are now
Looking at okay, let's assume that there were
technologically advanced
civilizations that existed before our recorded time
What are there other things that we should look for in geology in
Other branches of science that might help us figure that out
But we've never thought to look in those places is that kind of what you're getting at or is it a different thing?
No, I think so and ironically
For me it was one of the more interesting episodes on I it was either unexplained or ancient aliens where they were interviewing me about the idea of
How advanced could there